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Has anyone tried the MOMENTUM Program?

I have learned a lot from everyone's comments so my question is this, everyone who commented in this thread, who is making a living (no matter how small) from composing for film, tv & games? and did you take any courses to help you. Did the course help you network and have you continued to take any further education courses.

Thanks everyone.
 
I have learned a lot from everyone's comments so my question is this, everyone who commented in this thread, who is making a living (no matter how small) from composing for film, tv & games? and did you take any courses to help you. Did the course help you network and have you continued to take any further education courses.

Thanks everyone.
I have taken A LOT of online courses. I started my music career late in life. Evenant, ScoreClub, Thinkspace, Mike Verta, ... each providing bits of info. Tons of books too, and score studies. And mixing courses and mentoring, because at the lowest level you are expected to deliver a finished product. Not sheet music. Never sheet music.

Networking, I don't know. Never took an online group class, I'm a solo learner. But to me, it feels like networking with composers is a kind of way to feel part of a community. One can also join a few Facebook groups for that. I don't know if that translates into concrete paid work. Yeah, sure, I'm friend with some high-level composers who gave me jobs like building templates or writing scripts for them but when it comes to actual scoring or writing music for production libraries, the networking is done somewhere else, where the potential clients hang out. Not in scoring courses forums, not on VI Control, not in Facebook composing groups.
 
but when it comes to actual scoring or writing music for production libraries, the networking is done somewhere else, where the potential clients hang out. Not in scoring courses forums, not on VI Control, not in Facebook composing groups.
Thanks for the info, could you elaborate? nothing specific if you don't want to but just a general comment on how you were able to make connections.
 
Can you provide some examples? Your strongly worded claims, while plausible, aren't self evident, especially to folks who haven't watched the video.

I understand, but all three videos can be watched in less than an hour. I'd imagine at least a few people have already done that and saw what I was talking about. I was actually thinking someone might've added some comments along those lines already.

Anyway, there's a forum rule about leaving space for other people to pitch in and help and make it more of a community effort, so I'm trying to lay back since my post was so long. But if no one does that pretty soon, I'll come back and point out a few specifics.
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MODERATORS: Would this thread go better in the Composition sub-forum?
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Thanks for the info, could you elaborate? nothing specific if you don't want to but just a general comment on how you were able to make connections.
Find where your potential clients congregate and spend time online. Facebook groups, reddit, film festivals, etc, etc and join the conversation. I don't mean go spam there but participate in the discussions. I'm in love with cinema and TV, it's easier for me to be interested in all aspects of filmmaking (I'm currently following a course on color grading even though I will probably never do it outside of my YT videos.) I made some contacts and somewhere in the conversation, they figured out I make music. It's a long-term endeavor. Something I believe that can't be offset by throwing money at it, whether an expensive course or paid ads.

In short, look at what you want to do, for who you want to do it, and figure out who are the people behind it.
 
Anyway, there's a forum rule about leaving space for other people to pitch in and help and make it more of a community effort, so I'm trying to lay back since my post was so long.
That's (obviously?) not what the intent of that rule is about. If you make a statement that there are inaccuracies in the videos, then it shouldn't be that now it's everybody else's job to find them. If you make a statement, it's your job to support that statement.

The rule about "leaving space" was specifically about not dominating conversations, which is a totally different thing.
 
In short, look at what you want to do, for who you want to do it, and figure out who are the people behind it.
Great answer, I want to write for film, TV and games, I love the idea of sitting down with someone and get an understanding of what music they want on their project and going back and fourth until they get what they want. I am willing to do it for anyone, I honestly don't really care. At my core, I am a creator, I hear things in my head but struggle with the practicality and this is why I use sequencing software a lot (NI Sessions Guitars and others) I'm a drummer so recording drums (electronic kit) is easy for me, I play bass (I have a 4 and 5 string) and can get by with keyboards, although mostly chords, my melodic playing is a lot to be desired.

Like most people here, I live and breath music but never had the guts to do it full time so fell into the corporate world while doing it on the side. Now I want to give it one last hurrah so I can say at least I tried. This year I am going to enter as many competitions as I can, mostly for practice and that's why I started this thread as I believe I lack good compositional structure or at least guidance.
 
Looks like Anne-Kathrin Dern is one of the mentors (according to the website), and she's certainly a top notch composer and educator. Spend ten minutes on her YouTube channel and you'll realize that very quickly.

UPDATE: Anne-Kathrin has clarified that she is not a mentor and only gave a few lessons last year before bowing out.
 
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Here are some details pertaining to post no. 35, which I plainly said I would provide all the way up there in post no. 64. This is all provided for FREE, which is mathematically much less than 15,000 smackers.

The video: 5 Orchestration Hacks To Make You An Amazing Film Composer

“Hack" no. 5


This one states that there are only two “real" bass instruments in the orchestra: double basses and tuba.

This is followed by a peculiar and unhelpful definition of “real bass instrument”, plus vague and incorrect assertions regarding balance with respect to the other bass instruments (but supposedly not really bass! instruments!). He doesn’t even mention dynamics, footprint, or texture, even though he’s talking about balance. Whut? But the real kicker is when he says that the bass trombone (and, presumably, the contrabass trombone) and the cimbasso don’t “truly have the bass power”.

If you want to understand orchestral balance, it’s an entire study all its own. It can be very elusive, and no one ever perfects it. That’s why, among many others, Beethoven, Mahler and Stravinsky revised their scores over and over, and it was mostly to fine-tune the balance. Ravel, of all people, had planned on writing a specially focused orchestration book that focused on his miscalculations in this regard. A minute or two of Youtube junk ain’t gonna cut it. The coverage here is unserious to anyone wanting to actually learn how to orchestrate, much less become an "Amazing Film Composer”.

“Hack" no. 4

The upshot of this one is that bright instruments are used for melodies, and mellow instruments are used for background. This once again scant coverage educates the beginning orchestrator that flutes, clarinets, and horns are to be used for background, and that trumpets, trombones, and double reeds are to be used for melodies. Again, this is the teacher for an online course costing 15,000 worthless American simoleons. Flutes and clarinets and horns are, as EVERYONE knows, used for melodies all the time, and the supposed “singer instruments” (as he calls them), are used for background elements all the time, too, though trumpet minimally. Instrumental timbre is, as everything else, a very big and very important subject that obviously deserves actual adult-level coverage.

“Hack" no. 3

This one talks about scoring in octaves, and he mentions tessitura alongside, which is boilerplate info you can find in any orchestration book, even the free ones on IMSLP—hardly worthy of a breathless three-inches-from-the-camera delivery. It’s like a Sergio Leone ECU, except very annoying and not cool. When substance is on hand, one needn’t resort to such gimmickry. Calm down. That’s not “passion”.

Anyway, at one point he asserts that clarinets have “so many overtones”, and if you double them in octaves, all those overtones will "conflict”. That’s two crucial misunderstandings of instrument acoustics, and instrument acoustics are nothing to slough off when you’re talking about real orchestration.

As is commonly known—or so I thought—clarinets in fact have FEWER overtones, not MANY (i.e., imperfect closed pipe with cylindrical bore). For all practical purposes, clarinets almost only have odd-numbered harmonics. But while they do have even-numbered ones, too, those are very weak and negligible. A woodwind with "lots of overtones"—which in non-Youtube speak means that the more distant overtones are proportionally stronger than is the case with other instruments—would be the sax family, hence their timbre.

And speaking of timbre, talking about it without talking about dynamics is downright silly. This isn’t even deep orchestration knowledge; it’s very basic.

After this he talks about the different strings of the violin with a graphic that would lead a beginning orchestrator with the impression that the G-string is the highest string, and the E-string is the lowest. Why a simple notated graphic could not have been inserted for clarification is a mystery. He seems overall to be strenuously avoiding notation, and my guess is that he’s playing to his preferred target sales demographic of "orchestral composers" who can’t read music.

Also, he says that Violins II are “always playing on their middle strings”. Lord love a duck.

I’ve skipped over a lot of things in the parts I covered above, and the rest of the video is just more of the same, making orchestration-ally wrong assertions and vague, pointless generalizations, since orchestration that will make you an “Amazing Film Composer” is not carried out with a random assembly of patchwork “hacks”. It’s a very knowledge, memory, and aural memory intensive subject. I can’t take anymore of this guy crawling out of the front of my computer screen with focal lengths never before thought possible, all while dispensing counterproductive nonsense.

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The next video I mentioned previously, from that “orchestration secrets” channel, is titled: Secrets to Crafting Epic Orchestral Music. I’m at a loss why anyone would have to point the obvious problem in this one, since it sticks out like a sore thumb. Anyway, the final version of the orchestration starts at 22:54. All seems fine at first, except for the congas stave, but watch what happens on page two with the horns, and overall with the brass on the page after. They’re all notated in 3/4, but the piece is written in 6/8. (Mind you, this is not like Bernstein using 3/4 as an intermittent hypermeter in “America” in WSS. That switches back and forth for all the instruments. It’s not a concurrent 6/8 + 3/4.) What’s worse is that the parts that are notated in 3/4 do not convey the impression of 3/4, but of 6/8. This would have to be fixed beforehand to avert wasted time and perturbed musicians in the run-thru or rehearsal. Too-clever-by-half notations, if that’s what this is supposed to be, are just asking for trouble.
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The last video I mentioned will require a couple of graphics. It’s from the Heppelmann channel (sorry about screwing up the last name previously), and the video is titled: The Orchestral Concert Harp.

The first big problem, which is not Chaloupka related, is about how to notate pedaling, at 4:52. Harp pedalings go beneath the bass stave (or in very simple parts, can be placed between the staves), but here he has them above the treble. And the single pedal change (to B-nat. in this instance) should not be boxed. Boxed text indications are reserved for foot-crossover changes. The box alerts the harpist to the non-idiomatic deviations.

The next problem is that he notates the active pedal change early, before the string it applies to. You can’t do it this way, because if the pedal change happens early, any strings from that string class that are still audibly ringing will pop out a nasty artifact to pin on string, plus a mini-gliss, so the pedal change has to happen as that string is plucked.

I’m going to ignore everything else and shoot straight to the Chaloupka issue. Stanley Chaloupka was a top shelf harpist, mainly for the LA Phil and studio work. His book is good. Very wise in most places, but dated in others, and he made an understandable “error” of omission at one point, on account of his personal finger spans are those of a man, and mistakes happen in every book of a technical nature. So, the finger spans he gives require clarification, without which will result in problematic passages for at least 2/3rds of harpists.

Here is the relevant screenshot from Chaloupka:

Chaloupka.png

He has the max range from f1 to f4 as being 11 strings, but doesn’t advise that this is for rolled chords only. And a note should have been added that even this is pushing it a little for a majority of harpists, so “be careful and keep it to an absolute minimum, and give a breath for placement". He’s giving his personal limitations, as a male harpist. And only then after, in the next list item he specifies that for non arp. chords, the maximum advisable span is 10 strings. (And I should mention here that on an ordinary basis, for maximum ease of placement and execution, you really should stick to chords with a max limit of an octave, with only brief excursions up to a 9th or 10th, even for rolled chords. This will be suitable and most effective for most harpists.) The larger spans of 11 strings, and even 12 in some cases, you may come across in the harp literature tend to be early 20th century, when male harpists were dominant, and guys like Salzedo and Grandjany were writing a lot of their own harp music.

Now a screenshot from 9:12 of the video:

AH.png

This is obviously a paraphrase of the Chaloupka book, if you compare, and with no additional scoring advice from personal experience, but since the presenter doesn’t understand harp writing—at least at the time of this video—he left out Chaloupka’s tardy clarifying note, which is crucial. So, following the advice from the video will cause you problems with most harpists.

To sum, maybe don't be such an easy mark. And try to ignore people on forums who presume to guide you in your thinking but are in no position of expertise to do so. They are all about, this thread included.

That's it for me then. If this is not enough detail, then it'll have to be not enough detail.
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And the single pedal change (to B-nat. in this instance) should not be boxed. Boxed text indications are reserved for foot-crossover changes. The box alerts the harpist to the non-idiomatic deviations.
This is partially the result of a bad default in Dorico. For some reason, the Dorico developers decided to box all harp pedal changes by default, which I've seen first-hand has resulted in complaints from harp players regarding parts produced in Dorico. I raised concerns about this default here:


A lot of people after finding this is the default leave it like that, thinking it is there for a good reason as a program default and that it is probably how harpists want it.
 
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Video analysis aside, maybe the best thing you can do is send Jovani an email. He invites you to do that in one of his videos. Maybe a direct dialog with the guy running the show will help you a bit in deciding whether or not a fourteen thousand dollar investment is worth it to you.

Unless I've read this thread wrong, it seems that most of the naysayers have not taken the course, so I'm not sure how valuable their advice is to you. I myself am neither pro nor con (although I'd never spend that kind of money, even on a big brand name school), but I haven't taken the course, either, so my advice probably isn't very valuable either.

Email Jovani is you have questions. Good luck with your decision.
 
I’m adding “lord love a duck” to my lingo.
Video analysis aside, maybe the best thing you can do is send Jovani an email. He invites you to do that in one of his videos. Maybe a direct dialog with the guy running the show will help you a bit in deciding whether or not a fourteen thousand dollar investment is worth it to you.

Unless I've read this thread wrong, it seems that most of the naysayers have not taken the course, so I'm not sure how valuable their advice is to you. I myself am neither pro nor con (although I'd never spend that kind of money, even on a big brand name school), but I haven't taken the course, either, so my advice probably isn't very valuable either.

Email Jovani is you have questions. Good luck with your decision.
I don’t know, talking direct to the person trying to get 14k from you isn’t necessarily the best way to make a decision. No bones against Jovani - just in general - I’ve just seen folks who can convince a remarkable number of people that a pineapple is an elephant through their skill of persuasion. I’m not always a fan of R.G.s rhetorical approach but the guy knows his stuff, so worth considering his concerns.
 
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What I'm looking for is a complete strip down of all the bad habits I have accumulated, start a fresh and embrace the correct approach to scoring
What you want is Scoreclub, and then probably venture out into private lessons. It's 60 dollars a month, so for .4% of the Momentum cost you can learn things in the "right" order (if there is such a thing), and it goes quite in depth.

I know that this cannot be the only example of what happens in the classes, but 14k for "an instructor showed us how to use a high shelf EQ" is completely absurd. At that cost you should already be fairly competent in composition, orchestration, and production before starting, otherwise you're going to be spinning your wheels. 6 months, even if perfectly executed, is straight up not enough time to learn much.
 
I don’t know, talking direct to the person trying to get 14k from you isn’t necessarily the best way to make a decision.
You can learn a lot by talking directly to someone. Especially if you go in knowing he's trying to sell you something.
 
I think in our changing industry, y'all need to be skeptical of every form of composer education that involves spending lots of money and does NOT involve an APPRENTICESHIP for a working composer. Working in the trenches, seeing the problems & problem solving as they do, for about a year or longer.

I don't say steer clear of youtube self education because that's free. Similarly, textbooks can be a great resource for systematic knowledge (harmony, orchestration). I think there is room for "paid video course" as an education niche IF the knowledge is truly systematized in a curriculum.

Mark Richard's courses on action music scales are well worth it. But that is more like "virtual multimedia textbook." Back in the nineties Mark's product would've been a book and a CD.

Maybe that's a good yardstick. If your course isn't really the 2024 equivalent of a book and a CD - a systematic, EDITED, organized book mind you - what are you selling?

And if you are looking at any form of education that will cost you 1,000s and isn't an apprenticeship - this includes university degrees - just ask yourself who is teaching? Why are they qualified to teach? Do they have industry experience & success? Or does the course look good because of their expertise in internet marketing? Funnel pages, tiered memberships, upselling, "hours of video content - so much value!" these are signs of an internet marketer.

The best tailor is a boring tailor, they have never thought about anything but clothes. The worst tailor is the guy with a flashy internet ad about how you can "save so much value" on your next suit.
 
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What you want is Scoreclub, and then probably venture out into private lessons. It's 60 dollars a month, so for .4% of the Momentum cost you can learn things in the "right" order (if there is such a thing), and it goes quite in depth.

I know that this cannot be the only example of what happens in the classes, but 14k for "an instructor showed us how to use a high shelf EQ" is completely absurd. At that cost you should already be fairly competent in composition, orchestration, and production before starting, otherwise you're going to be spinning your wheels. 6 months, even if perfectly executed, is straight up not enough time to learn much.
Having tried Scoreclub for a month, I think the strategy of "investing" $60 into determining if that type of approach, rather than the $14k Momentum approach, is what you're looking for is unquestionably a good idea. It'll leave you feeling either more convicted in a mentorship-type program, or realizing that's not what you need at all, and it'll cost you a month of time and $60.
 
who is making a living (no matter how small) from composing for film, tv & games? and did you take any courses to help you. Did the course help you network and have you continued to take any further education courses.
I didn't comment earlier because I'm trying my best to follow the guideline about saying nothing instead of saying negative things. Let's just say that I highly, highly advice to spend your money elsewhere for obvious reasons.

Anyway, I thought to share a few words on the question. While I've been doing this for the last 20 years for my living, the first course I took was just a couple of years ago. But despite faking till I make it (which I think has been working out pretty ok, but let's not tell anyone) I read and study musical literature a lot in my spare time because I want to become better than I am now, and to understand what makes my music suck and someone else's to suck less.

I think that as composers we are bound to study, self-reflect and educate ourselves to rise above our limits, but the truth is that we can learn a truckload of stuff without having to spend nothing more than our time into it if we're just willing to do it. I'm not saying that online courses are bad- quite the contrary. For example, the mentioned Scoreclub is a goldmine for what I've experienced. But I'm saying that maybe they are not the key to happiness, fun and awesome gigs scoring the next Assassin's Creed. No course ever, anywhere will get you proper gigs in the game industry despite of what they promise. I work in the game industry and I can tell you it with 100% certainty. And I'm sure that the peeps working in the movie music biz could tell the same for their part.

TL;DR - Get a year's membership of Scoreclub and save $ 13300. I'm pretty sure you'll walk out a year later much more wiser than taking that other, abovementioned course.
 
I have learned a lot from everyone's comments so my question is this, everyone who commented in this thread, who is making a living (no matter how small) from composing for film, tv & games? and did you take any courses to help you. Did the course help you network and have you continued to take any further education courses.

Thanks everyone.
No, and you should be skeptical about any course dangling something like that as a carrot on a stick.

There's a reason why the overwhelming majority of online music education courses aren't accredited. Any courses you take from a place like that will not transfer to an accredited university, which IMO should be treated as a red flag for a number of reasons.

That isn't to say an online course can't be useful because some of them are, but unlike an accredited university, there's no educational standard ensuring that the average online course delivers what it promises. (Non-accredited) online courses can be useful to brush up on a skill or improve your understanding of specific areas where you know you have a deficit, or need a refresher... In that regard they can be useful. But they're also often priced accordingly....

Expecting that a course can somehow magically fast track you to 2 or 4 years worth of hardcore music education in just 6 months, (or whatever their claim is), should be a huge red flag. There are no shortcuts in life, and are no shortcuts in music or post production.

Looks like Anne-Kathrin Dern is one of the mentors (according to the website), and she's certainly a top notch composer and educator. Spend ten minutes on her YouTube channel and you'll realize that very quickly.
Yeah, well she also made the vlog below where she was overtly skeptical. Whether she is or isn't referring to Momentum in this video there are still a ton of cautionary tales about the questionable motivations behind many of these online 'education platforms'.

 
What you want is Scoreclub, and then probably venture out into private lessons. It's 60 dollars a month, so for .4% of the Momentum cost you can learn things in the "right" order (if there is such a thing), and it goes quite in depth.

I know that this cannot be the only example of what happens in the classes, but 14k for "an instructor showed us how to use a high shelf EQ" is completely absurd. At that cost you should already be fairly competent in composition, orchestration, and production before starting, otherwise you're going to be spinning your wheels. 6 months, even if perfectly executed, is straight up not enough time to learn much.
Scoreclub doesn't cover production chops...AT ALL. Composers need to spend at least 1/2 their time on Production skills as much as composing, and heh throw in mastering Keyboards to a reasonable degree for extra credit.
 
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