timbit2006
A Member
I'd much rather go back to the days of "Kit Built Radios" rather than accept this nonsense. My oscilloscope is a kit build from the 50s, I don't think that put anyone out of work back then!
Yet more tech threatening to devalue the art of composing
- Thread starter NekujaK
- Start date
Kyle Preston
I Think, Therefore I Ambient
McDonald's hasn't made chefs obsolete.
OP
OP
NekujaK
I didn't go to film school, I went to films -QT
No, but it did put a lot of mom n pop food stands and drive-ins out of business. There are always casualties when franchises and chains move into territories. It's unavoidable.
MisteR
Senior Member
Oh, those. Haven’t seen one of those in a while. Yes, I’m joking. But worried given the state of funding.
flampton
Member
This is confusing the issue because popular songs (pop) isn't a static description. The current popular music does tend to use drum machines and what this suggests is that the music you want to get paid to play for is just not as popular anymore. There are many many other types of music that are less popular that utilize real drums and drummers and you might have to take a pay cut to enter that scene. The other idea is to create music that will bring the popularity of the acoustic kit back up, or grab some midi drums and offer that service as well?
This reminds me of the fall of the hair bands to grunge. Tastes change, and doing pushups on the guitar was no longer important to the culture. They wanted grit. And as such a guitarist either bitched and moaned(and failed), stayed true to their style and made (a lot) less money or changed their style to fit the times. I'm sure this went for the vocalists, bassists and drummers of the time I'm sure, but I am a guitarist so heard the most complaining from that group.
Cletus McBone
(Formerly: R.G.)
@NekujaK
How do you reconcile the concern you have about Soundful with your post no. 16 in the concurrent "Cheater Software" thread (which I quote below)? The software you're promoting there already devalues the art & craft of composing, already dumbs down what it means to be a composer. Soundful is nothing more than the inevitable outcome of such "cheater software"; the only difference is that it cheats more than the others, so your concern appears to be one of degree, not of principle.
As I said prior: Live by the tech; die by the tech.
vi-control.net
Post no. 16:
How do you reconcile the concern you have about Soundful with your post no. 16 in the concurrent "Cheater Software" thread (which I quote below)? The software you're promoting there already devalues the art & craft of composing, already dumbs down what it means to be a composer. Soundful is nothing more than the inevitable outcome of such "cheater software"; the only difference is that it cheats more than the others, so your concern appears to be one of degree, not of principle.
As I said prior: Live by the tech; die by the tech.
Best Cheating Software (AI, Chord Generators...etc.)
Let's get this out of the way, if you are against using tools that generate MIDI chords, melodies, arps...etc. this post is not for you. I've spent my last 12 years building VFX software that helps you cheat by cutting to the end result without having to learn complex visual effects concepts...
vi-control.net
Post no. 16:
flampton
Member
If at any time you do something that you could have paid someone else to do you are putting someone out of work. Every time you drive to work you could have hired someone to do it. Every time you cook, clean, wash your car, wire up a lamp etc. And when you put that radio together yourself you deprived someone else of money. And when enough (especially rich) people stop paying for everyone to do stuff for them and withdraw from the economy that is what is called a great depression.
Kyle Preston
I Think, Therefore I Ambient
Agreed!
But tech is rarely the cause of these scenarios, it's usually caused by monopolies (Walmart, McD's, etc.). Which are "supposed to be" illegal.
Also, if you have a half hour to kill, this video is really, REALLY good (though not entirely related to AI, but monopolistic practices).
OP
OP
NekujaK
I didn't go to film school, I went to films -QT
Easy to reconcile. I was merely listing some available options that satisfy the OP's original request. I wasn't promoting or endorsing these libraries, merely pointing out they exist and what they're capable of.@NekujaK
How do you reconcile the concern you have about Soundful with your post no. 16 in the concurrent "Cheater Software" thread (which I quote below)? The software you're promoting there already devalues the art & craft of composing, already dumbs down what it means to be a composer. Soundful is nothing more than the inevitable outcome of such "cheater software"; the only difference is that it cheats more than the others, so your concern appears to be one of degree than of principle.
As I said prior: Live by the tech; die by the tech.
Best Cheating Software (AI, Chord Generators...etc.)
Let's get this out of the way, if you are against using tools that generate MIDI chords, melodies, arps...etc. this post is not for you. I've spent my last 12 years building VFX software that helps you cheat by cutting to the end result without having to learn complex visual effects concepts...
Post no. 16:
But there's a much more important distinction. Those libraries are intended to be used by composers to assist in the composing process. Soundful is meant to be used by those who typically pay for music created by composers (TV networks, music supervisors, marketing depts, etc.). The grand promise of Soundful is that it replaces the need for composers, engineers, studios, musicians, and music libraries by delivering fully produced music on request.
Soundful and Audiofier's Veevums, for example, are two completely different beasts aimed at two completely different types of users. Sure, there's some overlap because they both generate music to varying degrees, but their intended use and target audience couldn't be more different.
Some people in this thread are reacting to Soundful as if it's another AI composition tool to be thrown into our composer bag, but that's really not the case. Soundful is aiming much, much higher at where the real money is.
OP
OP
NekujaK
I didn't go to film school, I went to films -QT
Yes, absolutely! In the case of Soundful, it just happens to be tech that may enable media giants like Disney and Discovery to become monopolies that control every aspect of media creation. In this case, music.
Gabriel S.
Member
Guys, before speculating and fearing the worst, having nightmares about the end of the music industry and so on...
Parameters: Music style, tempo and key. How many really different tracks can this thing make and how personalised can it be with just these 3 parameters? It looks like an advanced version of a sample pack.
Zero worries. Keep studying, keep composing, keep improving.
Parameters: Music style, tempo and key. How many really different tracks can this thing make and how personalised can it be with just these 3 parameters? It looks like an advanced version of a sample pack.
Zero worries. Keep studying, keep composing, keep improving.
timbit2006
A Member
I strongly disagree and wont extrapolate further.
By those rights this forum should be deleted because it promotes learning about how to use Virtual Instruments, something that guys like Hans Zimmer get paid to do so I better not dare trod onto their territory whatsoever.
Pier
Senior Member
timbit2006
A Member
In all reality though, how many on VI-Control are making money by making backing beats for generic wannabe bedroom studio 200 dollar recording setup rappers?
POV: You just lost your career to some generic rapper beat generator
POV: You just lost your career to some generic rapper beat generator
flampton
Member
I'm not sure you understand but your theory is just a cheat. What you spent all your time learning was how to 'cheat' (create music) faster (maybe better?) than someone who didn't have the time or resources to learn. And btw by your logic you are cheating the composers who had to invent the theory. And those composers are cheating the composers in the Ancient World who invented the notes and scales.@NekujaK
How do you reconcile the concern you have about Soundful with your post no. 16 in the concurrent "Cheater Software" thread (which I quote below)? The software you're promoting there already devalues the art & craft of composing, already dumbs down what it means to be a composer. Soundful is nothing more than the inevitable outcome of such "cheater software"; the only difference is that it cheats more than the others, so your concern appears to be one of degree, not of principle.
As I said prior: Live by the tech; die by the tech.
Best Cheating Software (AI, Chord Generators...etc.)
Let's get this out of the way, if you are against using tools that generate MIDI chords, melodies, arps...etc. this post is not for you. I've spent my last 12 years building VFX software that helps you cheat by cutting to the end result without having to learn complex visual effects concepts...
Post no. 16:
And yes I get why this software makes you insecure because change is hard. Rest assured if your music is good someone may pay you for it, and if not well then hope for socialism I guess? So stop shaming people for using new tools to make music. It is ridiculous.
Well you extrapolated further.I strongly disagree and wont extrapolate further.
By those rights this forum should be deleted because it promotes learning about how to use Virtual Instruments, something that guys like Hans Zimmer get paid to do so I better not dare trod onto their territory whatsoever.
Anyways I think you misunderstand the concept. I obviously don't pay people to do all those things but I am at least aware that I am part of the economy and my choices are what help drive the economy. And Hans Zimmer is a strange choice as he is very aware of the current economy and that is why he has his name on some tools in the VI pool.
Kyle Preston
I Think, Therefore I Ambient
This is a fair point.
I think I'm growing numb to these apocalyptic scenarios though. Every few months, there's a new thread about some new AI tech company that threatens our music careers -- it usually amounts to nothing but a company attracting more investors to burn cash at an astounding rate. Then, it fizzles out like a wet fart.
Always good to be watchful, but this Promethean fear so often results in nothing but wasted energy. And even if we're all "replaced" by AI, I'll never stop writing. Fuck em!
TonalDynamics
Noodler Extraordinaire
Not just the human generators, those 'art-generators' are dogshit too. What those redditors don't tell you is the hundreds of garbage renders they had to wait on just to get something remotely interesting.
And that's one frame--no continuity like with an actual VFX artist. Imagine having that discussion with the computer: "YES, do me a dozen more just like that, but with fire and the people are all ten feet tall and have on business suits inside a bowling alley and- no computer, nooo no no—NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
Yet they frame these 'one-offs' very proudly indeed!
It's a genre of art, I'll give 'em that. Does it replace having discussions with an actual artist who can make illustrations for you? No, and I'd wager anyone who wants to bet me that it won't in 100 years.
synergy543
Senior Member
No, but its made the world crave McDonalds, instead of "real food" and the creations of gourmet chefs. We're already living in a world of mediocrity. Would you like fries with that?
TonalDynamics
Noodler Extraordinaire
You could argue the other side of that and say fast food discouraged people from wanting to become a chef--thereby leading to a chef 'shortage' and ultimately making them a more valuable asset.
This article provides a bit of reading on the topic:
Is the long-term chef shortage over... or just paused?
I'm not making that argument btw, because I don't know enough to form an educated opinion on the matter, but they provide some interesting supporting evidence for the case.
(COVID changed this dynamic of course)
Cheers
Dewdman42
Senior Member
Machines are already able to create music. What they lack for now is the ability to understand what it is that causes listeners to enjoy listening to it. As musicians we have an intuitive sense about it because musical patterns cause our synapses to fire a certain way that will make us feel things. We listen to those sensibilities while creating music to guide us. This may seem like it’s magic but it’s not really magic it’s just very complex pattern recognition. Yes eventually machines will understand those patterns at as good or better level then we do subconsciously.
