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Why are so few of us using Sibelius or Finale?

Vik

Vik

Vi-k
https://vi-control.net/community/th...ram-for-work-with-orchestral-libraries.43016/

Looking at the above poll, only 0,7% of the composers/voters on this forum use Finale/Sibelius. Why do you think the number is so low?

Also - I've seen and heard a quite a few composers (who use virtual instruments) who are very curious about Steinberg's upcoming score app, but what would it take for composers who don't use Sibelius or Finale to use another score app instead?

My feeling is that dedicated score apps need to be a little more.... "DAW like".
It's eg. complicated to work with virtual instruments without proper articulation control, or without lanes for automating controllers. What do you guys and girls think?

ETA: Ooops, this thread should probably have been posted in another subforum!
Click to read more...
 
I haven't used Sibelius for long, and in my opinion, Sibelius has a very inflexible user interface. It's seems to be stuck in a very old way of doing things. Though this opinion might come from not using Sibelius for a long period of time.

Also DAW's and notation programs are different animals, at least at the moment. Sibelius makes great scores, but it's way too much work to make it sound good, at least for me. I usually start with Sibelius, because with it I can see harmonies easier, and then continue and finalize the song with Cubase.

I'm one those curious people, who's waiting for Steinberg's upcoming score app. They were talking something about connecting the DAW and the score seamlessly together.. :cool:
 
Sibelius/Finale are very good in doing what their intended for: Score edition. They can't compete with DAWs when it comes to what they are not intended for: Music rendition.
 
Exactly. But which DAW features would a notation program need in order to be usable for making both music and proper notation? I read recently that there are 14 people in Steinberg working on their new score app, and wonder (seeing e g how little development there has been in Logic lately); can such a large staff be justified if all they want to address are people who want a "pure" score app, in other words - if all they want is to compete with Final and Sibelius? If only eg Sibelius had been, say, "10% more DAW like", and not had such an outdated workflow (in many cases), I'd probably prefer it over a regular DAW, at least if I could automate controllers, use any 3rd part libraries I want, and have an easy-to-use articulation control.

Steinberg's upcoming app could, in theory, become such a program - but not if they aim at only addressing the wishes of those who use Finale or Sibelius only. I could be wrong, but my feeling is that a lot of composers would compose in a program that had proper notation if it was a little more "DAW like" than Sibelius and Finale are today.
 
Quite a few reasons:

1) Some Media composers don't read music very well or at all.
2) Composing for Media is often not about proper orchestration, it's about using the products well.
3) Real orchestrations are sometimes too time consuming to sequence adequately.
4) Often composers are not writing orchestral music or music written for acoustic instruments.
5) Getting a good performance from a notation program is much more time consuming than with a DAW

For me, I always do a rough Piano version in Nuendo, to make sure timings are correct, and to sequence any synths and then do the rest in Sibelius. However, I don't have to worry about what products sound good, because they will all be replaced by players.

I'll be moving to the new Steinberg app when it's released.

D
 
I guess for me to answer that question, I need to know how many people here are writing for live performers who require sheet music to perform. I've used Finale since 1999 and to me there are two main issues concerning the sound that makes it unnatural: too quantized because the score snaps everything into place and dynamics with set values that take away from the little nuances found by performing live with the mod-wheel. I've only used Cubase now since this summer, but I quickly learned that DAWS are for sound and notation software is for scores. Here is a sample of the last piece I rendered with Finale: https://app.box.com/s/mcmzv6s408cbwdeo8b8o9jg7rokfhdzs Of course I can still hear issues concerning sound, but I personally believe that after that recording I pushed Finale to its limits and had to start using a DAW.
 
EastWest Lurker said:
Well that is not entirely true Rodney. I have created literally thousands of parts and scores in Logic over the years.
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Great job, my friend. In my own experiences, my publishers have only asked for either Finale or Sibelius files to be sent to them for editing.
 
I've rendered audio out of Finale as a joke only - really - it was to send to someone as a joke. I use Logic's score editor for short term purposes but would never typeset in it - not in a million years. Finale looks much cleaner, gives you far more control, and has many workflow enhancements that Logic (and likely most DAWs) just do not have.

Everyone I have worked with composes in their DAW and print from Finale or Sibelius when it is something that needs to look publishable. I'm not sure there will be a change to make DAWs more traditional-composition-pencil-and-paper friendly since that is not the direction the market seems to be heading - that said I'll be interested to see this new Cubase app. I have long dreamed of software that I could write the music on notation software and be able to hear it sound as good as a DAW rendition - we certainly aren't even close yet - not to my ears.
 
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There is a difference between what publishers need and what session players/conductors need. That said, myself, Peter Schwartz, Daniel Hamuy, and a few others can definitely turn out publisher grade scores in Logic Pro for most music. I would not want to try to notate Sinfonetta or Grupen with Logic's score editor but I definitely could do a John Adams score with it.

But yes, Finale gives you more control and looks more elegant.
 
BTW, there are some things that are actually easier in Logic than Finale. I taught a two day seminar on using Logic Pro's score editor about 8 years ago and people were blown away by how capable it is if you really know it, the way guys like myself, Peter Schwartz, and Doug Zangar do.
 
Jay, do you have an example of a full score (symphony orchestra) done in Logic? That might help your argument. The only point of reference I have is the sh*tty scores that most Logic users seem to produce.

D
 
Maybe it's the chicken and the egg; many composers nowadays don't read music well because DAWs cannot read it at all. If any DAW would support this in a good way, I would personally go right back to scores since the DAW layout is terrible to read when track count explodes.

At the moment I use paper and Cubase, naturally hoping more than anything that Steinberg will implement this in a sane way in the future.
 
Daryl said:
Quite a few reasons:

1) Some Media composers don't read music very well or at all.
2) Composing for Media is often not about proper orchestration, it's about using the products well.
3) Real orchestrations are sometimes too time consuming to sequence adequately.
4) Often composers are not writing orchestral music or music written for acoustic instruments.
5) Getting a good performance from a notation program is much more time consuming than with a DAW
Click to expand...
Nailed it.

Proper music notation is a game played by intellectual elites in a world where technology is democratizing everything. ;)

[edited to include winky face because people aren't reading to the 3rd page before responding]
 
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