We need to talk about self-promotion

[mediumaevum]

It seems like VI is the only place on the entire internet that allows musicians to link to their own works.

In other words: There are far too few places where musicians are allowed to promote their own works or themselves.

Why is self-promotion so bad, and if self-promotion really is so bad, how are new musicians ever supposed to be allowed a chance to get heard, if they have no place to publish their music and have people talk about them?

I mean, you can publish on Youtube. But who would ever know you exists if you're not allowed to link to your channel or videos anywhere else?

We need to talk about this. It seems it is a global phenomenon.

Click to read more...

 

[ChrisSiuMusic]

Good topic. I don’t think it’s limited only to musicians; rather many industries and fields that have a competitive nature to it don’t tend to appreciate self promotion from others too much in my experience. This is particularly true if you don’t have something of value to offer another person.

So I think it’s wonderful that we have dedicated threads and groups now dedicated to self promotion to allow people to get their work out there. However, it’s become more important now than ever to attach your promotion with some element of value as well, whether that’s teaching, showing part of your process, or exchanging critique.

Lots of possibilities, but we need to stand out from the field nowadays if we want to really earn others’ respect and attract our ideal clients. Just some thoughts!

 

[mediumaevum]

Good topic. I don’t think it’s limited only to musicians; rather many industries and fields that have a competitive nature to it don’t tend to appreciate self promotion from others too much in my experience. This is particularly true if you don’t have something of value to offer another person.

So I think it’s wonderful that we have dedicated threads and groups now dedicated to self promotion to allow people to get their work out there. However, it’s become more important now than ever to attach your promotion with some element of value as well, whether that’s teaching, showing part of your process, or exchanging critique.

Lots of possibilities, but we need to stand out from the field nowadays if we want to really earn others’ respect and attract our ideal clients. Just some thoughts!

I completely agree with you. It is really sad that all Facebook and Youtube has to offer, is an individualized algorithm with no front page or forum to promote artists or video makers, musicians and others.

The internet needs a place to view, review and discuss business, art and music - AND allow for musicians, artists and business to make posts about their own works or products and receive feedback from customers, competitors and fellow artists.

There once were such places on the internet. It was called "forums". They are a dying specie and have been replaced by facebook groups.

The problem is that no facebook groups allow for such self-promotion. They're all locked to a specific group, country or region. For example there's a "Young Composers Forum" - only for young people (under 30). There's a "Copenhagen Musicians Group" - only for musicians in Copenhagen, not for the entire country.

There's an "American Composers Forum". Only for Americans.

It's really starting to be a big problem. We need more globalization on the internet. It's why it was invented in the first place.

 

[gamma-ut]

Who are you hoping to promote to? If you post on composers' forums, you are mostly only going to find other composers who are typically active consumers of music but probably aren't going to a composers' forum for that purpose. Getting feedback is all very well but if you want promotion in order to gain an active listener/fan base, these are not the places you are looking for.

It's fair to say that Soundcloud, which offered a far better mix of users historically, has become gradually more hostile to Long Tail artists (somewhat bizarrely given that's where their funding that isn't venture capital comes from) and made it harder to promote within the platform by knocking out many of the old groups features. But there has never been a place where you just post or distribute music and sit back and wait for the listeners. You are going to have rely on word of mouth and other more traditional techniques, which largely haven't changed in decades.

Also, there's a reason why most forums and groups banned self-promotion - those that used to do it either found it became increasingly spammy and basically set up enclaves where it's OK to post – but where it's best to just not expect a lot.

 

[mediumaevum]

Who are you hoping to promote to? If you post on composers' forums, you are mostly only going to find other composers who are typically active consumers of music but probably aren't going to a composers' forum for that purpose. Getting feedback is all very well but if you want promotion in order to gain an active listener/fan base, these are not the places you are looking for.

It's fair to say that Soundcloud, which offered a far better mix of users historically, has become gradually more hostile to Long Tail artists (somewhat bizarrely given that's where their funding that isn't venture capital comes from) and made it harder to promote within the platform by knocking out many of the old groups features. But there has never been a place where you just post or distribute music and sit back and wait for the listeners. You are going to have rely on word of mouth and other more traditional techniques, which largely haven't changed in decades.

Also, there's a reason why most forums and groups banned self-promotion - those that used to do it either found it became increasingly spammy and basically set up enclaves where it's OK to post – but where it's best to just not expect a lot.

So, -HOW- am I expected to promote my works of art/music? HOW am I expected to make people notice my works? If I can't post it anywhere and say "Hi, I exists!", how am I ever going to make other people recommend me or my works?

If you're forced to be invisible on social media, how are you supposed to promote your art?

 

[gamma-ut]

You're not forced to be invisible. If you go to Reddit, for example, you will find various subs that will accept music (and some that will ban for self-promotion). The trick is getting noticed beyond groups like these and that's the bigger issue compared to whether some forums don't accept self-posted content.

 

[mediumaevum]

You're not forced to be invisible. If you go to Reddit, for example, you will find various subs that will accept music (and some that will ban for self-promotion). The trick is getting noticed beyond groups like these and that's the bigger issue compared to whether some forums don't accept self-posted content.

And its that bigger issue of getting noticed beyond groups that I need some advice to get around.

 

[muk]

And its that bigger issue of getting noticed beyond groups that I need some advice to get around.

What kind of music do you write? Film music? Game music? Music for media? Your target audience will be totally different depending on what you write. You seem to imply that it is art music. Again, it totally depends on what kind of art music. Chamber music? Symphonic? Opera? Art songs? All of them? And in ehat style? Non tonal? Minimal? Neo something?

If you are writing for the concert hall, naturally your goal would be to have your music performed. I struggle with that myself, but it seems that you need either to pay for a performance, or have good connections in the business. Posting your music on the internet will never lead to a performance if you don't have a name already. Such lucky breaks just don't happen. Thus, your time will be better spent by promoting by other means.

The only ones I can think of are that you know an ensemble, say a string quartet or a conductor, well enough that they will program one of your pieces. Or you find a well-known publisher that takes your scores in their program and promotes them for you. In the world of art music, these seem to be the ways to make something happen.

 

[mediumaevum]

What kind of music do you write? Film music? Game music? Music for media? Your target audience will be totally different depending on what you write. You seem to imply that it is art music. Again, it totally depends on what kind of art music. Chamber music? Symphonic? Opera? Art songs? All of them? And in ehat style? Non tonal? Minimal? Neo something?

I compose mainly in the film music genre, if that's a genre on it's own. But I also make choral works and hymns. All of them rendered using VST's. What I want is to get people to know I'm here and listen to my music, watch my videos and comment, like and subscribe.

Money is not my main goal, at least not at the moment and have never been before.
Though I wonder why Youtube puts ads on my videos when I remember that years ago I said no to ads.

I'm not monetizing, I don't earn money and I haven't yet reached the lower limit of 1000 subscribers to earn money, and even if I did, I highly doubt I'd accept ads anyway.

I just want my channel to grow and connect.

 

[MarkusS]

In a bit of a cynical mood today, don’t mean to offend anyone. So there is this composer group on Facebook with many famous people and self promotion is strictly prohibited. So what you want to do is *hide* it cleverly.

The other day I saw a post on there going like this: I just scored this so and so game, recorded it with this or that orchestra and got this or that award for it. I’m very in demand now, everyone wants to work with me, I’m at the top of my game BUT here is the thing.. I kind of feel empty, dissatisfied, what is going on? Does anyone know this feeling? Admin approved, 300 likes, now that’s how you do it, son.

 

[MartinH.]

In a bit of a cynical mood today

Same, but not just today. I feel like "normal people" just don't care anymore about "just music". It either needs to be attached to a person that they can relate to and form a parasocial relationship with (vloggers, youtubers, popstars, established bands, etc.), or it needs to be attached to a narrative experience that they can emotionally connect with (like games or movies), or it needs to capitalize on some form of nostalgia or familiarity.

If you have some genuinely good and unique music - realistically ... who even cares? Serious question. If you're serving a niche genre that is starved for releases that may be different, but how many of those are there left?

Maybe I'm too cynical but I don't really feel like there even is a market anymore for "just music", because the abundance of music has reduced its intrinsic value to near nothing for most people.

So there is this composer group on Facebook with many famous people and self promotion is strictly prohibited. So what you want to do is *hide* it cleverly.

The other day I saw a post on there going like this: I just scored this so and so game, recorded it with this or that orchestra and got this or that award for it. I’m very in demand now, everyone wants to work with me, I’m at the top of my game BUT here is the thing.. I kind of feel empty, dissatisfied, what is going on? Does anyone know this feeling? Admin approved, 300 likes, now that’s how you do it, son.

These are some next-level pro-strats! But if the person is that successful, why would they need to self-promote? I'm inclined to believe the suffering is real here.

 

[Markrs]

The spamming is an issue on some groups on Facebook. I joined one trailer music group that allows promotion, and one guy posts all his YouTube on their everyday, constantly spamming the group, he is extreme, but overall it is quite spammy. So I left the group as except for constant self promotion there is no other comments or threads.

I do like listening to others music and I often do it on here and follow a lot of the VIC community on YouTube, but as others have mentioned to engage views you often have to give something as well, like a walkthrough of the track, etc.

 

[Thomekk]

Music as some rich cultural asset seems to be treated like an underdog these days.
Therefore I can absolutely follow your thoughts @MartinH. and @MarkusS I get what you mean.

My impression: There is no focused crafty discourse about certain and new musical trends any more.
The rich and colourful decades of music genres in the last century are gone.

Blame it on the internet and disruption and blame it on the strong fixation of exhibitioned statistics at social networks. People learnt to subordinate to Youtube/FB*s steady changing orders. Now all there has to be: Show off as an influencer! So there has to be more iconic stuff to be than just putting out "music".

Personally I don't like it to have do some meta-stuff (making off and blablabla) on the music. Musicians / composers aren't speakers, therefore they are doing music. But without that xtra speakerthing no dimes.. so better you do it. For sure not everone's cup of favorite tea.
Here in my country mainly hiphop artists are the ones public media seem to write about the most, more often about them being back from jail or having other scandals. Really dark... and no real music to expect but influencer gangstas..

Other than that: Too much technical orientation, but this goes probably only to sound/music producers.
Listeners would not care that much.
But they signed more and more the contract with spotify...
Which is a good and too cheap, nearsighted and overwhelming deal. Here also the abundance is taking over - so much music, so little time (to speak about it), lots under the protective barrier of headphones etc.

So, I have no real answers unfortunately (being in a similar boat).

The cynical view: You have to have scandals or (better) other things which connect to real life.
Underlining to this: Some old stuff of mine of ancient times seems to get more attention at parts than newer stuff sometimes, because this had been published as physical product (before the interwebs)

 

[quickbrownf0x]

The spamming is an issue on some groups on Facebook. I joined one trailer music group that allows promotion, and one guy posts all his YouTube on their everyday, constantly spamming the group, he is extreme, but overall it is quite spammy. So I left the group as except for constant self promotion there is no other comments or threads.

I do like listening to others music and I often do it on here and follow a lot of the VIC community on YouTube, but as others have mentioned to engage views you often have to give something as well, like a walkthrough of the track, etc.

I was bored, leave me alone!

 

[Gingerbread]

I wonder if the lack of intrinsic value to new music today (regardless of its quality) has to do with the simple fact that it's purely digital, rather than physical?

It seems like the moment when it lost all its value was also the moment physical media (CDs, records, etc.) stopped being the way people bought and listened to it. In the same way that a piece of digital artwork just doesn't have the same emotional value as an actual painting you can hang on your wall.

Just a possibility. Thoughts?

 

[Arbee]

Without wishing to make it sound even more challenging, getting attention is one thing but keeping that attention is equally necessary for continuity. And until you learn enough to produce your first "earworm", you'll need more resilience, self awareness and determination than you thought humanly possible.

If we assume the modern listening audience views music as a commodity, and we also assume they have a very short attention span, then we are certainly pushing s... uphill. And of course if you're doing instrumental music rather than vocal, then you've already lost 90% of them.

The good news however, is that the folk who let you know how much they love your music do inspire you to keep going. With some reflection and research to identify your audience and your "brand", a good web site, a modest advertising budget (e.g. Google Ads) and a presence on YouTube/Spotify/Apple Music etc you can get enough exposure to at least know when you're on the right track.

 

[Arbee]

I wonder if the lack of intrinsic value to new music today (regardless of its quality) has to do with the simple fact that it's purely digital, rather than physical?

It seems like the moment when it lost all its value was also the moment physical media (CDs, records, etc.) stopped being the way people bought and listened to it. In the same way that a piece of digital artwork just doesn't have the same emotional value as an actual painting you can hang on your wall.

Just a possibility. Thoughts?

Agree totally, there is more value in something tactile, and value in scarcity. Digitising anything, photos, music, books, diminishes that value. Books have been an interesting case study, where the touchy-feely nature of a real book has unexpectedly withstood the digital transformation to some extent.

 

[averystemmler]

Why is self-promotion so bad

In the context of forums and groups not intended as personal advertising platforms: because it gets in the way. Unsolicited self-promotion is advertising and advertising is, by and large, obnoxious. If the ad isn't providing value to the group or its owner, it's just milking them for clicks. If it gets out of control, people leave. Hence, restrictions.

and if self-promotion really is so bad, how are new musicians ever supposed to be allowed a chance to get heard, if they have no place to publish their music and have people talk about them?

This is like asking for directions to the nearest gold vein. If we knew, it'd be mined already.

In all seriousness though, that's the entire game. Corporations have risen and fallen around the singular goal of getting artists in front of people. It's hard. The people we all know about have put a LOT of effort into getting us to know about them.

 

[Peter Williams]

The internet is the neo-Tower of Babel. We are living in a time of highly specialized skills and interests. It is very difficult to generate interest in art-music in whatever form, especially if it breaks with convention. I've tried to create a kind of poly-stylistic music that embraces the past, the present as well as current technology. Some like it, but others not so much, which I understand. Specialized persons often have very specialized interests in music, so my stuff can probably seem heretical and flippant to some. I am grateful for this forum, as I learn things that I would otherwise have very little exposure to. I'm not too interested in doing film or game music, but I very much respect the skill and effort involved with that craft and I do learn useful things from others' experiences with it. I'm 73 years old, been playing music since I was seven, and I'm now mostly content to save my work on decent quality cds and other media. I do use Soundcrowd and Farcebook, but to very little effect. You can't even find me on Soundcrowd unless you include my middle initial (B.), as Peter Williams is a common name.

P.S. I thought that the music business changed radically when music videos became popular in the '80s, because the musical artistry became compromised by the visual artistry, although occasionally the sum was greater than the parts. In general though, what you looked like became more important than what you sounded like.

 

[Sub3OneDay]

I find this a really interesting thread. Perhaps because I’m a bit older?

I spent years playing in a band, and dreamed of the big break (which never came) so we went back to our day jobs and I write music now for my own satisfaction and if something comes of it by chance then great but I’m not really promoting myself anymore.

But, what’s interesting for me here, is I come from the era of the demo tape. We didn’t have the internet or Facebook groups or soundcloud when I was younger and self promotion wasn’t in any way the internet - in fact an email mail shot when my band had a gig on was as probably as electronic as it got.

Self-promotion was literally send off a tape or a cd to a label or promoter and hope someone played more than the first few seconds of it to like it and give you a call.

I think that’s perhaps why I find interesting now - it seems to be coming full circle - taking the OPs original point - the internet is a bleak place when looking for somewhere to self promote but it wasn’t for a while until it all became about “monetised”…
But it seems to be gradually returning to something like the old days (goodness do I sound old?) -you’d get a tape done, a tape got you a gig, a gig got you another one if you got enough of your mates to come, a share of door receipts got cash to get a better tape done - and repeat.