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Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

Yashiro_Ryu said:
Talk will lead no where...business...20 years...dude you're just throwing words. Post Audio & what can't you get from a single library that you need 5 in a weird blend
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I will post audio. But certainly not for you with that tone. I don't know who pissed in your coffee but I do not accept being talked to like this on this forum. So I have reported you. This ain't KVR or Facebook. But I think you will learn quickly if you keep going like this.

Dude.

If you acted like this in your other thread I can see why it went cold.

Tip: if you want to learn anything as a beginner, which you said you are here, then I would immediately stop every sentence that begins with "I cannot understand..." in any authorative manner and actually, you know, listen to those with more experience with an open mind.
 
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Crossroads said:
I will post audio. But certainly not for you with that tone. I don't know who pissed in your coffee but I do not accept being talked to like this on this forum. So I have reported you. This ain't KVR or Facebook. But I think you will learn quickly if you keep going like this.

Dude.

If you acted like this in your other thread I can see why it went cold.
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Who cares. The question about blending is still unsolved. Be happy in the your nice golden bubble. If that's what got on your nerves...must be a royal chamber you reside...you're highness.

Here's a video of Blended vs Non-Blended Stuff [Every single non-blended sounds better]:

 
Ivan Duch said:
@Crossroads you're talking about mix and matching, right? Trying to put all of them into a similar space (AIR).

@Yashiro_Ryu, you're talking about layering, right? Playing several libraries simultaneously. Like layering CSS + CSSS.
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Aren't they the same though...You'd obviously mix at the end.

Also CSS+CSSS is just adding First Chairs. They were recorded in the same environment. That's exactly why 95/5 Ratio is great for bigger libraries.

P.S. - In the end it's about sounding great. You can a lot in the daw but doesn't mean it sounds great.
 
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Yashiro_Ryu said:
Aren't they the same though...You'd obviously mix at the end.

Also CSS+CSSS is just adding First Chairs. They were recording in the same environment.
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They're not the same in my book.

If I layer CSS + CSSS I still get the same tail and ER.

If I layer CSS + SSO, AIR would tend to dominate with the tail and CSS with the definition and expression, depending on the mics you choose.

And that's a common practice, in particular when sweetening with live players recorded in a dry room.

Now, he could have been talking about mixing and matching CSB with SSO strings + winds. The goal there is to make CSB sound within AIR and coherent with the other two libraries.

Now if you layer 5 string libraries as you mentioned...

"I don't understand what makes one blend 4-5 libs."

It tends to sound like rubbish to me as well.
 
Ivan Duch said:
They're not the same in my book.

If I layer CSS + CSSS I still get the same tail and ER.

If I layer CSS + SSO, AIR would tend to dominate with the tail and CSS with the definition and expression, depending on the mics you choose.

And that's a common practice, in particular when sweetening with live players recorded in a dry room.

Now, he could have been talking about mixing and matching CSB with SSO strings + winds. The goal there is to make CSB sound within AIR and coherent with the other two libraries.

Now if you layer 5 string libraries as you mentioned...

"I don't understand what makes one blend 4-5 libs."

It tends to sound like rubbish to me as well.
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By Blending I meant strictly layering 2 libraries with same stuff [2 1st violins with same midi playing]. Using Berlin Strings with CSW or CineBrass is not what I consider blending. With that you can get great results by mixing. I meant playing the same melody with Berlin & CSS & Pacific.

Using multiple libraries within a piece coming and going through out is also doable. Like Berlin for detailed & adding ARK stuff when getting really loud like in Wagnerian stuff.

It sounds practical like AIR dominating and CSS providing detail. But the sound is very hard to get right. There's a change in Timbre of the sound of instrument [in a bad way] if done improperly. I never tried SSO but Spitfire Studio Stuff & SCS are not what I'd use for blending.
 
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Crossroads said:
Why does that sound dubious? I've been doing this for 10+ years and I have a good set of ears. It's really not that difficult to do. Only thing I needed to do was to create a reverb sound matching Air Studios myself, which isn't that superhard at all.
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I tend to agree. I think you likely need a certain number of instruments recorded in the space to ground it—or at least that facilitates the effect—but once you have that it’s not hard to mix other libraries to it. We’re now pretty used to hearing this mishmash of recorded spaces, and I suppose you can hear it if that’s what you listen for just as you can almost always hear virtual instruments if that’s what you listen for. But that’s not what we normally listen for. And in any case it’s my contention that any impression of realism is an effect of the musicality rather than vice versa.

Yashiro_Ryu said:
That's a very personal statement that can't be verified unless you post audio of what you got. My thread about Blending stuff got cold when I asked that.
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There are plenty of examples of effective blending of libraries. All you have to do is peruse members compositions here, listen, and for those you find effective see what libraries they used. It’s very rare that only a single set of libraries recorded in a single space has been used.

Now if we’re talking about layered strings, that’s as much a time thing as anything. And it’s a tradeoff between the blur of the mixed sound and the variety you can get from having different libraries. But simply loading up a bunch of string samples in a multi and using the same midi on it doesn’t really increase the variety; it simply mixes the sounds in a one dimensional way. And weaving the various libraries together to create the illusion of an ensemble with now this set of players and now that set of players coming forward in a musically compelling way requires lots of work and is not generally amenable to simply playing it in a second time. Sometimes layering is helpful to the musical effect, and worth the additional work, sometimes it’s not. But I will say that if you stick to one library you are inherently limited by what that library affords that line. Whereas if you layer two libraries you can move within the much larger space defined by the two poles, so long as you find the space of that intersection, the blur of the mixed crossfade between them, a musically productive one.
 
Yashiro_Ryu said:
By Blending I meant strictly layering 2 libraries with same stuff [2 1st violins with same midi playing]. Using Berlin Strings with CSW or CineBrass is not what I consider blending. With that you can get great results by mixing. I meant playing the same melody with Berlin & CSS & Pacific.

It sounds practical like AIR dominating and CSS providing detail. But the sound is very hard to get right. There's a change in Timbre of the sound of instrument [in a bad way] if done improperly. I never tried SSO but Spitfire Studio Stuff & SCS are not what I'd use for blending.
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Based on that I think you were focusing on layering and he was focusing on mixing and matching libraries to make them sound in a cohesive room.

What @Crossroads was talking about is indeed common practice, just check the templates of most of the best mockup artists in this forum.
 
I never layer libraries. I just tend to work to the strengths of whatever I’m using. I choose the “room” at the start and go with it.

Also quite possibly because I’m lazy or have left it to the last minute. It’s a preference, not a hill to die on.
 
Yashiro_Ryu said:
It sounds practical like AIR dominating and CSS providing detail. But the sound is very hard to get right. There's a change in Timbre of the sound of instrument [in a bad way] if done improperly. I never tried SSO but Spitfire Studio Stuff & SCS are not what I'd use for blending.
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Yes, it's hard. I rarely layer libraries. But I often have to try my best and find a cohesive hall sound from libraries recorded in different places.
 
Yashiro_Ryu said:
It can be even more of a time thing due to setting -ve delays & the orginal samples being not of same lenght. Even 2 short staccato samples differ in time.
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And that's why you use both staccatos from both libraries in different situations in a cue and that's why you have to bring them into the same room so they sound well together. Sometimes one staccato will do, other times the other. If one library doesn't have the right staccato sound, you use the other. Which you can because you first made sure they sound recorded in the same space. Get it now?
 
Crossroads said:
And that's why you use both staccatos from both libraries in different situations in a cue and that's why you have to bring them into the same room so they sound well together. Sometimes one staccato will do, other times the other. Get it now?
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You're a funny guy, It was never something unknown. We were conversing about blending 2 libraries & you took it as using 4-5 libraries in a piece differently in different situations.
 
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Yashiro_Ryu said:
It can be even more of a time thing due to setting -ve delays & the orginal samples being not of same lenght. Even 2 short staccato samples differ in time.
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Sure, though that’s true of real players too. Sometimes it matters, often it doesn’t, occasionally the mismatch makes for a good musical effect.

You seem bound and determined to find absolute, hard and fast rules for this, and that’s not how any of this generally works. Or it may well work for you, but you are trying to turn the particulars of your practice into universals. When you do that, don’t be surprised when others bristle.
 
jbuhler said:
Sure, though that’s true of real players too. Sometimes it matters, often it doesn’t, occasionally the mismatch makes for a good musical effect.

You seem bound and determined to find absolute, hard and fast rules for this, and that’s not how any of this generally works. Or it may well work for you, but you are trying to turn the particulars of your practice into universals. When you do that, don’t be surprised when others bristle.
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Nah! I don't care. I mainly use Berlin primarily now just because of it's tone. Most of time is taken by composition. There's hardly time to master. Great composition produces the result than trickeries with libraries.
 
Yashiro_Ryu said:
That's a very personal statement that can't be verified unless you post audio of what you got. My thread about Blending stuff got cold when I asked that.
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I doubt you will find many people who invest time to prove to you that you can blend other libraries with the ones recorded at Air. I've done it a lot and it's not more complicated than with any other library. Sometimes, it works; sometimes, it doesn't. It's not rocket science to find the right combo. You just need some time and luck.
 
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babylonwaves said:
I doubt you will find many people who invest time to prove to you that you can blend other libraries with the ones recorded at Air. I've done it a lot and it's not more complicated with any other library. Sometimes, it works; sometimes, it doesn't. It's not rocket science to find the right combo. You just need some time and luck.
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It was never an argument. I was just surprised by someone blending 4-5 libs. That's all. Usually it's 2.
 
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