So nice to see how much 8Dio loves their loyal supporters!

[Uptown Composer]

I also don't buy things for the sake of it. I buy things when I need them. Don't let the people who have literally studied how to manipulate you, market you into purchases you don't need. Focus on what will make any gig you are on either better or easier, and invest in it. Keep doing that till you have what you need.

I see what you mean, but isn't it somewhat of a moot point? Not all people buy stuff for the pure functionality of it. Look at the outfit you're wearingh right now - is it purely clothes that you need, or maybe clothes that you also want and like a little? And where does this philosophy take me, who gets paid nothing for my music? Whether you make money off music or not, it is still an art form that can bring joy to the world in many ways. Owning libraries can be rewarding ourside of using them for a specific project you get paid for, no?

We live in a capitliast world, we all buy shit don't need. C'est la vie.

/Happy amateur

 

[Tanarri]

If I am working on a project, I usually know how much they will be paying ahead of time. Which means I can spend some of the money I will get for this project, before I do it, to buy new products which I will use to write the score. If buying the product makes writing the project I am doing either easier, or a greater end result, then it has already been utilized to its full value in my mind. From that point on, every project I work on that I use that library in, will also be making that project easier/better sounding....meaning I get more value out of a tool every time I use it more than its initial use.

Then when the next gig comes along, I do the same. Until you have all the tools you could ever need. Then you get to a point like I am at now where your investments outpace the industry, to the point I no longer need to invest in tools because I have what I need. And am in profit from here out when I work.

I also don't buy things for the sake of it. I buy things when I need them. Don't let the people who have literally studied how to manipulate you, market you into purchases you don't need. Focus on what will make any gig you are on either better or easier, and invest in it. Keep doing that till you have what you need.

Hope that answers it?

-DJ

I get your reasoning. I was merely curious how many VIC members make more money doing music than they're spending on all the software. Which is not, of course, a question pointed specifically at you (unless you're a sociology hobbyist collecting the data ).
Because your argumentation here (as I understand it) revolves around making the invested money back, which makes sense for the position you're in, but how many people here find themselves in the same situation?

Scamming? Seriously? FOMO is a sales technique as old as the hills. It's nobody else's fault if you fall for it. How many developers do an intro sale-- get it now before the price goes up--only to do a deep discount a year later for less than that intro price? Happens fairly regularly.

But here's the thing. If you paid, say, $100 for a product six months ago that's now been released today for $75, don't you think your ability to use the product for the last six months was worth that extra $25? Like I said, if you're worried about future price drops, you might as well not buy anything.

Yes, FOMO scamming. Would be nice if you reacted to what I had written a few times already instead of talking about sales in general.

I think you miss the point.
Of course stuff will go on sale. Cinematic Studio and Infinite stuff have sales too.

The thing here is, 8Dio made a marketing move about how the whole era of V8P ends and loyal customers have the great last opportunity* to get that stuff for the best sale prices. Yes, we were told it will be available in the store in the future. But I don't think anyone assumed this great last opportunity means they will release the exactly same thing just 3, 4, 5 months later, at WAY better prices.

This has nothing to do with libraries going on sale, this is pure FOMO scamming.
You can make some arguments why it's not, maybe I'm wrong, but from what I wrote, IMO, the picture is quite clear. If they released it now at the exact V8P sale prices, I wouldn't say a thing.
And what makes it even more foul is all the "thank you loyal customer" PR talk.

Yea. But like I said, it's about how 8Dio did it, not that it eventually went cheaper.

 

[noises on]

8dio giveth, 8dio taketh away, blessed be the glitch.

You can either hunt for the lowest price or you can decide for yourself what a library is worth to you, pay that, and be satisfied. I take the second path, and not just for 8dio. That means I can be happy for others when the price drops further if I bought at a higher price, even if that was just a couple of weeks ago.

Your comment defines the situation most succinctly. Some of my best value has been derived from my 8 dio buys. Many companies are guilty of this....to a greater or lesser extent.

 

[robgb]

Yes, FOMO scamming. Would be nice if you reacted to what I had written a few times already instead of talking about sales in general.

Sales in general is exactly why you should not be surprised by any of this.

 

[Kyle Preston]

Owning libraries can be rewarding ourside of using them for a specific project you get paid for, no?

How does this contradict anything DJ said? Pretty sure he’s offering one specific situation in which purchasing a library is rewarding. What does that have to do with the price you already agreed to pay?

I understand being upset with the deception. 8dio’s marketing/SEO is predatory. But a working composer making a business choice doesn’t take away your autonomy to buy or not buy a product, am I missing something?

 

[Rudianos]

8dio has always been great to me ... I, in a silly fashion, ended up buying some redundant samples the Intimate Winds/ Warm Winds. Several months after the fact I discovered it and they were so kind as to exchange the Warms out for Intimate Brass. Even a price difference and they ate it. That is good customer service. I am a customer that has purchased many products from them... most on the 60% bundler they had before... mixed with sales. I can understand being annoyed when paying more than you could have. Happens in investing all the time. Does not really bother me... win some you lose some.

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

Plus, I'd like to know how many people here make so much money with music they got all the invested bucks back.

I have since first buying my first sample library around 2006 (EWQL Complete Composer Collection), which cost me nearly $2000. The theatrical production I landed at the time paid a bit more than that, so it was instantly paid back. I'm a part-time composer, but I always treat myself to a sample library when I get a gig. Heck, I just licensed a song to someone for $199 and I spent it all on a library. You don't need to make a bazillion dollars to invest in sample libraries (and I have a lot of them). Afterall, these are sample libraries, not sports cars.

 

[Crowe]

I think the problem here is that 8Dio claimed this product was to disappear and there was a last opportunity to get it... and then re-released it, and cheaper at that. That's not something getting cheaper in a sale, that's saying 'You'll never be able to buy this again' and then going 'psych!'.

If that isn't what happened, then I don't see a problem. If it is though, that's bullshit.

 

[Technostica]

I think the problem here is that 8Dio claimed this product was to disappear and there was a last opportunity to get it... and then re-released it, and cheaper at that. That's not something getting cheaper in a sale, that's saying 'You'll never be able to buy this again' and then going 'psych!'.

If that isn't what happened, then I don't see a problem. If it is though, that's bullshit.

They said that V8P was ending but I don’t recall them saying that they were retiring those libraries.
Therefore, there was clearly a possibility that they would be on sale again as regular 8Dio libraries.
I think the annoyance is based on just how quickly they were rereleased and more importantly the price.
Although, they were available briefly via a glitch for even less, as a code (not the bundler) was still active after the V8P sale started.

 

[SupremeFist]

I have since first buying my first sample library around 2006 (EWQL Complete Composer Collection), which cost me nearly $2000. The theatrical production I landed at the time paid a bit more than that, so it was instantly paid back. I'm a part-time composer, but I always treat myself to a sample library when I get a gig. Heck, I just licensed a song to someone for $199 and I spent it all on a library. You don't need to make a bazillion dollars to invest in sample libraries (and I have a lot of them). Afterall, these are sample libraries, not sports cars.

Exactly — I made like £8 on a pub gig with my band a few years ago and instantly bought a Gibson SG. (Am I doing this right?)

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

Exactly — I made like £8 on a pub gig with my band a few years ago and instantly bought a Gibson SG. (Am I doing this right?)

You could have bought the Rigid Audio flash sale bundle....or Audio Ollie's Taste . Just need to justify the costs accordingly.

 

[SupremeFist]

You could have bought the Rigid Audio flash sale bundle....or Audio Ollie's Taste . Just need to justify the costs accordingly.

I bought Taste anyway! (When are they going to release the damn bass?)

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

I bought Taste anyway! (When are they going to release the damn bass?)

I know!

 

[CG Smith]

I think the problem here is that 8Dio claimed this product was to disappear and there was a last opportunity to get it... and then re-released it, and cheaper at that. That's not something getting cheaper in a sale, that's saying 'You'll never be able to buy this again' and then going 'psych!'.

If that isn't what happened, then I don't see a problem. If it is though, that's bullshit.

8Dio made it clear they would be re-releasing the V8P libraries on the main 8Dio site, the issue is more a case of when and for how much.
This is the end of the 8Dio e-mail announcing the V8P Sale (sent 13th April 2022):

The V8P products won’t be relaunched right away, but rather slowly made available over a longer period of time, so we wanted to offer you one last V8P opportunity to grab them at a uniquely discounted price (75% off).

Because it may take up to a year before these products are launched into the new 8Dio Catalog, time is of the essence.

The discounted price now will be the lowest price available.

For reference, here are the prices for some of the V8P items (taken from the last V8P Sale e-mail, sent 6th May 2022):

V8P Extreme Electric Guitar Ensemble

Sale Price: $74 (Normal Price $298)

V8P Extreme Electric Bass Ensemble

Sale Price: $62 (Normal Price $248)

V8P Extreme Analog Synth Ensemble

Sale Price: $87 (Normal Price $348)

V8P Extreme Real Drumkit Ensemble

Sale Price: $99 (Normal Price $398)

V8P Extreme Drum Machine Ensemble

Sale Price: $49 (Normal Price $198)

Extreme Ensemble 10 Electric Guitars then launched ~14th June 2022 for $50.
Extreme Ensemble 10 Basses launched ~12th July 2022 for $50.
Extreme Ensemble 10 Analog Synths launched ~18th August 2022 for $50.
Extreme Ensemble 10 Drum Kits launched ~19th September 2022 for $50.
Still waiting for Extreme Ensemble 10 Drum Machines, but presumably this will drop around mid-October.

To add my own editorial, I agree with/follow the general principle of @jbuhler's comment about finding a price you are happy with and being satisfied...

You can either hunt for the lowest price or you can decide for yourself what a library is worth to you, pay that, and be satisfied. I take the second path, and not just for 8dio. That means I can be happy for others when the price drops further if I bought at a higher price, even if that was just a couple of weeks ago.

However, in this specific case I feel that @Tanarri has a valid point too.
In particular, the final line of the original 8Dio e-mail ("The discounted price now will be the lowest price available.") lead me to getting some items at a price I wasn't really happy with as I assumed that this would be at least the base price moving forward.
Did I think that the items would never be available at a cheaper price in the future?
No, I'm not that naive, particularly when you factor in the (in)famous 8Dio Glitches that crop up.
What I didn't expect was something like the 10 Electric Guitars launching about a month after the V8P Sale ended with a BASE PRICE (i.e. not factoring in future sales, glitches or bundler discounts, etc) that was 2/3rds of the V8P Sale price.
10 Drum Kits might have launched about 4 months after the V8P sale but the BASE PRICE is half of the V8P Sale price.
I'm not sure how 8Dio can reconcile that pricing with the comment from the original e-mail.

I would also echo @Rudianos comment about 8Dio Support though, as I have previously found them to be very reasonable and helpful in resolving issues arising from their chaotic sales practices. They've done things that they haven't strictly needed to do (e.g. swapping out purchased products to benefit from subsequent freebies) which is very much to their credit.
I haven't contacted them about this particular issue yet, though plan to in due course.

 

[Tanarri]

Thank you very much @CG Smith for the exact email quote! I've deleted the email but I somewhat remembered its content, hence my reaction.

The V8P products won’t be relaunched right away, but rather slowly made available over a longer period of time, so we wanted to offer you one last V8P opportunity to grab them at a uniquely discounted price (75% off).

Because it may take up to a year before these products are launched into the new 8Dio Catalog, time is of the essence.

The discounted price now will be the lowest price available.

Well... there it is.

The amount of weaseling in the email is astounding.

If some things there are not straight-up lies then they are at least very misleading and (deliberately, I reckon) ambiguous.

The FOMO, one last V8P opportunity to grab them at a uniquely discounted price, time is of the essence. (They also thank you for being a loyal supporter, another emotional tether more than anything, since otherwise they would appreciate their loyal customers differently.)

The scam, Because it may take up to a year before these products are launched, The discounted price now will be the lowest price available. Not even in 3 months (cmiiw), the products have started to appear at 50% of the uniquely discounted price. So 8Dio FOMOed their 'loyal supporters' to pay twice as much money, by telling them something about will be the lowest price available.

The wording, rather slowly made available over a longer period, it may take up to a year, The discounted price now will be the lowest price available. (I have to say I'm reading the last sentence over and over, without actually understanding what it is exactly supposed to mean. What now?)

Not only the marketing is dubious, but the actual business practise is dishonest.
Okay, maybe, at the time of writing the last V8P offer email, they didn't know the best thing for them to do will be to put those products at even highly reducted prices, but that's where some sense of integrity should appear and the people should say, "ok, the uniquely discounted price is not that unique, but at least we're not putting the price even lower, let's make the new intro price the same as what the V8P sale price was". I'd have ZERO problems with this.

I have no doubts 8Dio could wriggle out of all of this, saying "we said may", "with The discounted price now will be the lowest price available we believe we actually didn't specifically say the price won't ever go lower, or even it won't go lower in the 1 year period, remember we said may", "the time is of the essence was just a friendly reminder this sale will end one day XOXOXO", etc.
Yea, you can say all of this, and some people may think it's valid. But to me, there've been enough red flags to avoid this company and give my money to other people.

Sales in general is exactly why you should not be surprised by any of this.

You are still (dunno if intentionally or not) avoiding the argument I did.

You don't need to make a bazillion dollars to invest in sample libraries (and I have a lot of them). Afterall, these are sample libraries, not sports cars.

Well, would be nice if different purchasing power wasn't a thing.

And at least, you can fricking resell your cars.

 

[Ricgus3]

Thank you very much @CG Smith for the exact email quote! I've deleted the email but I somewhat remembered its content, hence my reaction.


Well... there it is.

The amount of weaseling in the email is astounding.

If some things there are not straight-up lies then they are at least very misleading and (deliberately, I reckon) ambiguous.

The FOMO, one last V8P opportunity to grab them at a uniquely discounted price, time is of the essence. (They also thank you for being a loyal supporter, another emotional tether more than anything, since otherwise they would appreciate their loyal customers differently.)

The scam, Because it may take up to a year before these products are launched, The discounted price now will be the lowest price available. Not even in 3 months (cmiiw), the products have started to appear at 50% of the uniquely discounted price. So 8Dio FOMOed their 'loyal supporters' to pay twice as much money, by telling them something about will be the lowest price available.

The wording, rather slowly made available over a longer period, it may take up to a year, The discounted price now will be the lowest price available. (I have to say I'm reading the last sentence over and over, without actually understanding what it is exactly supposed to mean. What now?)

Not only the marketing is dubious, but the actual business practise is dishonest.
Okay, maybe, at the time of writing the last V8P offer email, they didn't know the best thing for them to do will be to put those products at even highly reducted prices, but that's where some sense of integrity should appear and the people should say, "ok, the uniquely discounted price is not that unique, but at least we're not putting the price even lower, let's make the new intro price the same as what the V8P sale price was". I'd have ZERO problems with this.

I have no doubts 8Dio could wriggle out of all of this, saying "we said may", "with The discounted price now will be the lowest price available we believe we actually didn't specifically say the price won't ever go lower, or even it won't go lower in the 1 year period, remember we said may", "the time is of the essence was just a friendly reminder this sale will end one day XOXOXO", etc.
Yea, you can say all of this, and some people may think it's valid. But to me, there've been enough red flags to avoid this company and give my money to other people.


You are still (dunno if intentionally or not) avoiding the argument I did.


Well, would be nice if different purchasing power wasn't a thing.

And at least, you can fricking resell your cars.

Are this thread beating a dead horse by now?

 

[Technostica]

It does look bad to me, so I would definitely ask them to refund the difference based on the email that they sent.
Based on past experience, if you ask nicely, I think they may well do that.