Plugins that can push the sound away

[Paul@Sydney]

I've been playing a bit with some of the reverbs I have basically trying the early reflections.

The source is just a short pulse with Zebra so it all sounds quite artificial. I imagine with a more acoustic and natural source this might sound better.

I automated the dry/wet as follows.



Ignoring the differences in tone etc which one do you think sounds "deeper" to your ears?

A
View attachment reverb-push-test-A.mp3

B
View attachment reverb-push-test-B.mp3

C
View attachment reverb-push-test-C.mp3

D
View attachment reverb-push-test-D.mp3

E
View attachment reverb-push-test-E.mp3


I think I'd go with A.

On headphones. For me C was the only one that took the sound out of my head and felt like a room. Rest just felt like Haas with some reverb. Maybe try with a staccato trumpet or something?

 

[Bee_Abney]

C sounds most natural to me, A sounds furthest away. I used speakers. And they all hurt my ears. Ouch! Maybe something about the frequencies combined with the hard attack.

 

[Pier]

And they all hurt my ears. Ouch!

Sorry about that...

 

[Bee_Abney]

Sorry about that...

I was surprised how sensitive my ears were to this particular sound (on my speakers, in my room). So it's not your fault!

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

I was surprised how sensitive my ears were to this particular sound (on my speakers, in my room). So it's not your fault!

 

[Pier]

I've added the reverbs used.

It's really a bad test. I'm ashamed of it and I'd delete it but I won't let my personal weaknesses interfere with science!

Now in all seriousness I've been trying with a snare and it's a completely different result. I will post some examples if your ears are not fried already

 

[Bee_Abney]

I've added the reverbs used.

It's really a bad test. I'm ashamed of it and I'd delete it but I won't let my personal weaknesses interfere with science!

Now in all seriousness I've been trying with a snare and it's a completely different result. I will post some examples if your ears are not fried already

Science, it’s a dirty and often humiliating business!

Or was that politics?

 

[JSTube]

Science, it’s a dirty and often humiliating business!

Or was that politics?

It's hard to tell; which one is less bought-out by corporate interests these days? (science or politics?)

 

[Alchemedia]

I won't let my personal weaknesses interfere with science!

“Wagner's music is better than it sounds.” --Bill Nye

 

[JSTube]

I love MODO drum, but I hate its cymbals! So I need to be able to patch in my own cymbals (I have Addictive Drums which will have some much better ones, also dry).

I needed to simulate the room mics for this amalgamated kit. Mverb hasn't disappointed!

Here's some great pushing away I've been able to do with Mverb thus far, TOTALLY dry MODO kit:

When I bypass the FX the only other thing I'm using there is an EQ after Mverb. Towards the end I kick in an 1176-style compressor on the simulated rooms and you hear me mess with that level of wet/dry with the slammed room mics.

Does this sound "pushed away?" Simulated a 12m room so I used a 36ms predelay.

(maybe volume warning?) I couldn't tell you since I can't hear anymore!

Also note this example uses the MODO cymbals, I just did the proof-of-concept, I'll find which ones I like in AD at some later point. (and the HH didn't get the room treatement, oh well, doesn't matter because I only like the drums in MODO)

 

[Tronam]

This is an intriguing discussion and I've often wondered about the various methods used to create depth by pushing instruments further back into the mix. I have the newer Eventide SP2016, but for science and curiosity sake I bought 2016 Stereo Room as well to see if there's any audible difference between them for this purpose.

 

[Pier]

This is an intriguing discussion and I've often wondered about the various methods used to create depth by pushing instruments further back into the mix. I have the newer Eventide SP2016, but for science and curiosity sake I bought 2016 Stereo Room as well to see if there's any audible difference between them for this purpose.

How did you buy Stereo Room?

I doesn't seem to be available:

2016 Stereo Room

The Art of Reverb The 2016 Stereo Room reverb plug-in was crafted to simulate a great sounding ‘room’. Delay lengths, reflections, and other properties of […]

www.eventideaudio.com

 

[Emanuel Fróes]

I often hear sounds in music which do not feel in my face but rather pushed deeper. They just feel a bit more diffuse and behind the more upfront sound but do not necessarily have a reverb tail.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

When mixing they are definitely using some kind of reverb with early reflections and/or psychoacoustic effect to achieve this and I wanted to start this thread to discuss this topic a bit.

I know of 2Caudio Precedence and Panagement but I was wondering if anyone had other plugins they could recommend.

in Logic i use binaural panner. This affects the position and espace but not the reverb.

You can also use MIR by Vsl, the “ultimate “ solution. I wait to buy after i get 128 ram, i dont believe it is efficient otherwise (?).

There may be still some retro rudimentary solutions for this : pure mixing. Example: the violin is dry and close, so you record with the mic your speaker from your room.

You can use a reverb but not as reverb, just selecting some features and muting others, like the reflections: increase size of the room and use the direct sound, for example available in Ir1 by Waves.

And to bring closer you can eq the reverb frequences out and increase attack and detai of release somehow with upward compression (but i never tried this yet). I just find it logical.

And the most rudimentary of all: lower volume and higher frequency makes it more distant .

Higher tones habe a more precise positioning, contrary to lower tones. These are essential elements of espacializations. For same reason here lays the secret of woodwinds, principally as solo discant voices.

 

[JSTube]

Gosh darn. Had to buy Virtual Soundstage 2, despite all the reasons not to -- I just can't get the same kinds of results with anything else I've tried! It's kind of pricey for what it is, so I bought the single-room edition, as that room was the only one I really liked, anyway.

MVerb is great but it doesn't have an integrated multi-track UI to easily manage everything for like, a whole orchestra. eaReverb has one, but it's not as easy to use with a lot of different tracks (at least not on the demo, it only lets you edit the specific track you've opened the plugin for, unlike VSS2 where it doesn't really matter which instance you click because it's all synced to one main instance in all reality.

VSS2 is as far as I can tell, still the only dedicated ERs-only generator out there.

I can also confirm the eaReverb does work on macOS 12 (I'm running an M1) -- it's just not officially supported, or the demo works, at least.

 

[Markus Kohlprath]

How did you buy Stereo Room?

I doesn't seem to be available:

2016 Stereo Room

The Art of Reverb The 2016 Stereo Room reverb plug-in was crafted to simulate a great sounding ‘room’. Delay lengths, reflections, and other properties of […]

www.eventideaudio.com

I don't know exactly but it might be that you can choose Stereo room within the SP2016 as a profile. So the Stereo Room plugin might be integrated within SP2016.
I'm not sure about this, just an assumption.
Cannot check it right now.

 

[muk]

Just for reference, I wrote a little tutorial about one method to create a sense of depth with reverb. The good thing is you can apply this technique with any reverb of your liking:

Creating depth - one possible method tutorial

Hi everyone, Depth has always been a tricky one for me in the mixing stage. There are countless methods and tools you can use. Here is a very basic, simple one that works well for me. If you have some experience with mixing you probably already know this. But maybe it is useful for people who...

vi-control.net

 

[Lionel Schmitt]

if its a mono source can do it. https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/schoeps_mono_upmix.html

If its a prominent exposed line it may have to be used subtle since the effect doesn't sound quite natural at stronger settings

 

[IFM]

Gosh darn. Had to buy Virtual Soundstage 2, despite all the reasons not to -- I just can't get the same kinds of results with anything else I've tried! It's kind of pricey for what it is, so I bought the single-room edition, as that room was the only one I really liked, anyway.

MVerb is great but it doesn't have an integrated multi-track UI to easily manage everything for like, a whole orchestra. eaReverb has one, but it's not as easy to use with a lot of different tracks (at least not on the demo, it only lets you edit the specific track you've opened the plugin for, unlike VSS2 where it doesn't really matter which instance you click because it's all synced to one main instance in all reality.

VSS2 is as far as I can tell, still the only dedicated ERs-only generator out there.

I can also confirm the eaReverb does work on macOS 12 (I'm running an M1) -- it's just not officially supported, or the demo works, at least.

I came here to ask about this same thing. Unfortunately, VSS2 hasn't had an update in eons and no response from the developer about Apple Silicon compatability. I understand it was made by one person but I'll really miss it. Will try to reach out again but not getting hopes up.

 

[JSTube]

I came here to ask about this same thing. Unfortunately, VSS2 hasn't had an update in eons and no response from the developer about Apple Silicon compatability. I understand it was made by one person but I'll really miss it. Will try to reach out again but not getting hopes up.

You don't need to worry about it. I'm running it on Apple Silicon. It works as long as you have Rosetta 2.

I'd just recommend getting it -- go for the one room version.

*I also emailed the developer, Gabriel Heinrich with no response. As have many others over the past several years on this forum.

It's kind of rude that nobody can get a word back from the developer. He doesn't mind leaving that payment processor up, but doesn't care about you, the customer -- evidently -- at all !

I can't -- in forum searches across various websites -- even find a single case of the guy in the last 6 years actually getting back to somebody -- and that's cruddy and does reflect negatively on Gabriel as a developer.

*Really sorry that I had to give Gabriel Heinrich my money because he won't give anyone else his time of day, it seems. Not even a simple yes or no question or willingness to respond to an obsolesence statement! I encourage people to be on the lookout for a successor plugin to VSS2, this is unacceptable, but it's the only plugin that I actually like thus far for what it does.

I really hope that guests browsing this thread via Google search results take this as a word of caution that the developer for VSS2 in 2022 is still actively not engaging his customers in any way, shape, or form (besides accepting their payments!)... and if that's important to you, then VSS2 isn't a good plugin for you, because you might buy it, it stop working, and then you're SOL!

 

[Kyle Preston]

How did you buy Stereo Room?

I completely forgot what a pain in the ass it was to actually buy this damn plugin! I tried through Eventide, there was a demo bundle that included it, but you couldn't purchase it as a standalone (even tho the site said you could).



But.

That's what KVR is for, pretty sure that's where I purchased it