Pacific ensemble strings... why no 2nd violins?

[jbuhler]

Mmm. On one hand, anybody who owns the full version of Kontakt has the right to access, analyse, customise, and even share findings about what is happening in the backend of any unlocked library. On the other hand, I can understand if a developer feels protective or precious about certain methods they have come up with in how their library has been built.
I do remember somebody sharing a Pacific nki at some point with customizations in it, which is technically a "no-no" since it contains code and thus Intellectual Property. Not sure if that was you or not, but he'd be within his right to request that be stopped.

I don't know what goes into an nki exactly, but it seems a strange thing to get upset about a modified version being shared, since it's not clear what anyone could do with it if they didn't already own the library. Whereas with the samples, it's quite clear what someone could do with them without having the nki. But there may be more to the nki and the scripting it contains than I understand.

In any case, one problem with Kontakt and moving beyond just treating it as a basic sample player is that there are few tutorials of this sort that show how to go behind the wrench and tweak things to your liking. There are many basic scripting tutorials for Kontakt, but they mostly don't address the things you need to know to modify complex commercial sample libraries.

 

[EFlexMusic]

Not to stray off topic, but why does it suck?

I usually write 5 voiced chords for strings at most and I'm used to having to write for 2nd violins and either combining 1st and 2nd in unison or in octaves at my leisure and having 2nd violins allows me to do so with it also sounding authentic. Also most string libraries i've seen have then split in sections so that's why i was surprised it didn't

 

[Living Fossil]

I know the user LivingFossil uses Nashville Scoring Strings with Pacific Ensemble Strings.

Actually I use Pacific's 1st violins as 2nd violins with the transposition trick and an altered panorama.

While I have Nashville and Vista matched an set up as additional options.
Sometimes Pacific's legato is too much portamento and thats where Nashville comes in very handy.

@EFlexMusic : Utilizing the violins as 2nd violins via transposition trick absolutely works in all constellations...

 

[jbuhler]

Utilizing the violins as 2nd violins via transposition trick absolutely works in all constellations...

Except you don't get the redundancy of having a second section recorded separately, which can be most convenient when your firsts surface some issue.

 

[pcs801]

I just asked Jasper about this. He doesn’t mind at all people customizing their own copies of the library (even if the changes aren’t ones he would personally make) but, as per the EULA, you can’t share or distribute these patches. Side note: He’s been considering for a while the idea of making tutorial videos on how to customize PS libraries.

Seems reasonable. As these libraries require the full version of Kontakt, anyone who purchases them could in theory customize them however they wished, remap / extract samples, rescript, whatever. The problem arises when a person wants to share their adjustments. Clearly sharing samples is a no-go, I'm curious why sharing a .nki patch would be such a problem though? Is it so that people who don't own the library could take the code and apply it to another that they already own? That seems like it would be a massive amount of work and probably require a total rescripting of all samples.

 

[Trash Panda]

Seems reasonable. As these libraries require the full version of Kontakt, anyone who purchases them could in theory customize them however they wished, remap / extract samples, rescript, whatever. The problem arises when a person wants to share their adjustments. Clearly sharing samples is a no-go, I'm curious why sharing a .nki patch would be such a problem though? Is it so that people who don't own the library could take the code and apply it to another that they already own? That seems like it would be a massive amount of work and probably require a total rescripting of all samples.

He probably just doesn't want to deal with extra support tickets from people complaining when an altered patch breaks something.

 

[Nashi_VI]

I just asked Jasper about this. He doesn’t mind at all people customizing their own copies of the library (even if the changes aren’t ones he would personally make) but, as per the EULA, you can’t share or distribute these patches. Side note: He’s been considering for a while the idea of making tutorial videos on how to customize PS libraries.

Great that he responded to you, when i asked him directly about people sharing how they modified the backend of his kontakt instruments he just straight up never responded to me after that, so i just assumed he was againt it based on the previous discussion i had with him about it.

 

[Nashi_VI]

He probably just doesn't want to deal with extra support tickets from people complaining when an altered patch breaks something.

According to him, that is not the case.

 

[Nashi_VI]

Mmm. On one hand, anybody who owns the full version of Kontakt has the right to access, analyse, customise, and even share findings about what is happening in the backend of any unlocked library. On the other hand, I can understand if a developer feels protective or precious about certain methods they have come up with in how their library has been built.
I do remember somebody sharing a Pacific nki at some point with customizations in it, which is technically a "no-no" since it contains code and thus Intellectual Property. Not sure if that was you or not, but he'd be within his right to request that be stopped.

No, i never shared anything anywhere, but i discussed some of the stuff we are discussing here now with him privately.

 

[aka70]

To be honest I was hesitant to give too much guidance on how to mess around with libraries like that, as I don't think every developer is overly thrilled with people doing this sort of thing.
But then I realised, sharing that sort of knowledge was kinda the whole point of VI-Control in the first place, and ultimately I think it should be encouraged if it helps people get more out of their samples.

It's a pretty deep topic overall, and often needs a bit of experience to know where to look, but hopefully this quick little guide will help you find your way around the backend of Kontakt with a bit more confidence so you can experiment and get better at it over time - maybe even good enough to come up with a recipe for 2nd violins?
It walks you through how to "disable" the top dynamic of legato transitions in Pacific, just as you were already trying to do.

(Note to Jasper: If you want me to remove this, just let me know and I'll take it down)

I was missing the last step then... Thank you very much for this tutorial. You made my day

 

[kitekrazy]

What is the transposition trick? And what does it do for the user.