New M1 Pro and M1 Max MacBooks!

[Vehrka]

Definitely don't need the Max if you're not going to use the ram or graphics card. If you use a lot of instances of synths go for the Pro.

Hey thank you so much for replying! Quick question…for synths like Diva or Omnisphere, do you think there’d be a noticeable difference between the 16, 32, & 64 GB RAM options? I know Omnisphere does have some beefy patches in it.

Even though right now I don’t use too many samples, I do think I will be in the future (and I do use some Orchestral Tools stuff already). In terms of future proofing just wondering if upgrading from the Pro to the Max & consequently upgrading from 16 to 32 (or 64) gifs of RAM will give me the most bang for my buck.

Thanks again for your input btw

 

[rnb_2]

Hey thank you so much for replying! Quick question…for synths like Diva or Omnisphere, do you think there’d be a noticeable difference between the 16, 32, & 64 GB RAM options? I know Omnisphere does have some beefy patches in it.

Even though right now I don’t use too many samples, I do think I will be in the future (and I do use some Orchestral Tools stuff already). In terms of future proofing just wondering if upgrading from the Pro to the Max & consequently upgrading from 16 to 32 (or 64) gifs of RAM will give me the most bang for my buck.

Thanks again for your input btw

My gut feeling is that even a beefy patch used by a synth is nothing compared to an orchestral template, but I don't have Omnisphere, so I can't speak conclusively on that.

If you want to future proof yourself, an M1 Pro with 32GB is a reasonable option. Upgrading to the Max in order to go to 64GB is something you should probably know you need to do before doing it (unless the money involved doesn't impact you meaningfully).

 

[Vik]

Thanks for reporting, Khollister. 57 gb of RAM for 300 instances = 0.19 gb per track. Many single instruments use 2-3 gb or more… were this unique tracks, with a normal amount of notes, automation, and a combination of long/short and fast/slow notes? Did you check out the max number if tracks you could get with normal, real-life like, non-purged tracks?

Did you try to open the same project on an Intel Mac and see how many tracks you could get? Was this 48khz/24 bit? Buffer setting?

With many users struggling to be able to play more than 10 tracks on an m1 Mac, 300+ tracks almost sounds too good to be true, and nobidy seem to have claimed that the M1 max performance is 30 times (300/10) higher than on an m1, which is why I’m curious about the details!

 

[Vik]

f you want to future proof yourself, an M1 Pro with 32GB is a reasonable option.

Theres a major difference between 32gb and 64gb on an intel Mac, even for moderate sample based projects, so i guess you talk about synth- and not sample-based projects here?

 

[PhilA]

Hey thank you so much for replying! Quick question…for synths like Diva or Omnisphere, do you think there’d be a noticeable difference between the 16, 32, & 64 GB RAM options? I know Omnisphere does have some beefy patches in it.

Even though right now I don’t use too many samples, I do think I will be in the future (and I do use some Orchestral Tools stuff already). In terms of future proofing just wondering if upgrading from the Pro to the Max & consequently upgrading from 16 to 32 (or 64) gifs of RAM will give me the most bang for my buck.

Thanks again for your input btw

As mentioned above so eloquently Even soft synths with BIG sample sets like Omnisphere are nowhere near as ram hungry as Orchestral sample sets, that said I would not buy a 16gb ram M1 MacBook Pro, given it’s not end user upgradable don’t base your purchase on your usage today but your future usage tomorrow. The 32gb isn’t a huge price hike and it means the laptop is way more likely to have a longer life before you feel the need the upgrade again.

 

[HeliaVox]

Just got my 16" MacBookPro with the M1 Max chip. Still in the installing/setting up stage. But boy, the hardware is top notch. The keyboard is really nice. The screen is beautiful, and I'm impressed with the speakers. They're loud! And I was surprised by the bass response. I was listening to a harp piece, and the low strings really sang! I'm looking forward to seeing what this laptop is capable of!

 

[PhilA]

Since you mention the speakers. The directional response while watching something with an Atmos sound track is really quite good too.

 

[khollister]

Thanks for reporting, Khollister. 57 gb of RAM for 300 instances = 0.19 gb per track. Many single instruments use 2-3 gb or more… were this unique tracks, with a normal amount of notes, automation, and a combination of long/short and fast/slow notes? Did you check out the max number if tracks you could get with normal, real-life like, non-purged tracks?

Did you try to open the same project on an Intel Mac and see how many tracks you could get? Was this 48khz/24 bit? Buffer setting?

With many users struggling to be able to play more than 10 tracks on an m1 Mac, 300+ tracks almost sounds too good to be true, and nobidy seem to have claimed that the M1 max performance is 30 times (300/10) higher than on an m1, which is why I’m curious about the details!

Unpurged, Activity Monitor was reporting something like 115GB of memory. In spite of significant swapping, it still played though. And, no, I'm not spending the time to construct your fantasy test project. OPUS does not share samples between tracks (watching the RAM footprint as you add tracks makes that clear). I had about 10 different patches with a couple different articulations (legato slur MAX and legato bow change MAX in the case of strings) and 3 different MIDI files. There were 300 simultaneous voices. Oh and I left the default convo reverb on each track in OPUS as well rather than running everything through a send with a single verb instance.

I remain unconvinced that however unrealistic this scenario is, it doesn't represent an edge condition use case.

48K, 128 buffer (although I selected an empty audio track for playback so it shouldn't matter), Process buffer Large, 64 bit internal precision.

I'm not spending any more time on testing unless someone else can provide a Logic project with libraries I own. I am convinced this machine is entirely adequate to run anything I would personally run - the only thing of significant concern is the load/save times of large Kontakt projects and general stability of 200+ tracks of Kontakt. Since most of my orchestral use now is VSL Synchron or OPUS, I'm not sweating that either.

 

[chromatic]

All 24 tracks were playing simultaneously with identical chords, so we are talking something like 120+ Diva voices plus another 50-60 voices on Repro. And the patches selected have long release tails, so the voice buildup is not insignificant.

I realize the absolute track count doesn't sound impressive, but this is a completely artificial project using these synths in a way you would never do in real life.

Hello
I was reading your test on the M1 Max about Diva and Repro…
”All 24 tracks were playing simultaneously with identical chords, so we are talking something like 120+ Diva voices plus another 50-60 voices on Repro. And the patches selected have long release tails, so the voice buildup is not insignificant.”

Just to be sure you mean those are playing in the same project at the same time 120 diva voices + 50(60) repro voices so a total of around 170 voices at the same time ?!
I think its that but just to be sure…

Thank You!

 

[khollister]

Hello
I was reading your test on the M1 Max about Diva and Repro…
”All 24 tracks were playing simultaneously with identical chords, so we are talking something like 120+ Diva voices plus another 50-60 voices on Repro. And the patches selected have long release tails, so the voice buildup is not insignificant.”

Just to be sure you mean those are playing in the same project at the same time 120 diva voices + 50(60) repro voices so a total of around 170 voices at the same time ?!
I think its that but just to be sure…

Thank You!

yes - each track had a chord of 5-6 voices (working from memory here) and the patches I used had long release times, so the voice count doubled on chord changes.

 

[chromatic]

yes - each track had a chord of 5-6 voices (working from memory here) and the patches I used had long release times, so the voice count doubled on chord changes.

Thats Amazing! Thank you
I was gonna built a PC for my studio but, i now wonder if it would be that much powerful to make it worth using windows…
By Geekbench Numbers (12500 vs 17000) it would seem Yes a PC would still be worth it but it seems by Optimisation and maybe the way the M1 system work its not that far for real world results…
Although i dont know how many voice of Diva a 16core amd can get but… it sounds like 170 voices is enough…

 

[khollister]

Thats Amazing! Thank you
I was gonna built a PC for my studio but, i now wonder if it would be that much powerful to make it worth using windows…
By Geekbench Numbers (12500 vs 17000) it would seem Yes a PC would still be worth it but it seems by Optimisation and maybe the way the M1 system work its not that far for real world results…
Although i dont know how many voice of Diva a 16core amd can get but… it sounds like 170 voices is enough…

Far be it from me to recommend Windows, but there is little doubt that something like a DIY 5950X desktop PC will be more powerful and cheaper than a Mac laptop. Part of that is DIY vs Apple, part is PC vs Apple and part is desktop vs laptop.

If you really need a desktop, I would wait a few months and see what happens with the "big" iMac, Mac mini "Max" or Mac Pro "Lite". I bought the laptop because A) I wanted a single studio/mobile machine, B) I am a Logic user and really don't like Windows and C) I had the money.

On the other hand, if you are not a die-hard Logic and/or MacOS user, the PC makes a lot of sense especially if cost is a big factor.

 

[rnb_2]

Theres a major difference between 32gb and 64gb on an intel Mac, even for moderate sample based projects, so i guess you talk about synth- and not sample-based projects here?

Yes - I was specifically replying to someone who seemed to be using mostly synths, with some orchestral, and was debating between an M1 and a Pro/Max. It's easy to talk ourselves into spending more via "what if I end up doing X down the line?", but I think a Pro/32GB config is a nice mid-point, giving room to grow without talking yourself into buying a more expensive machine "just in case".

 

[khollister]

Yes - I was specifically replying to someone who seemed to be using mostly synths, with some orchestral, and was debating between an M1 and a Pro/Max. It's easy to talk ourselves into spending more via "what if I end up doing X down the line?", but I think a Pro/32GB config is a nice mid-point, giving room to grow without talking yourself into buying a more expensive machine "just in case".

Agreed. I think 32 is workable depending on your workflow and instrument palette. If you are heavily sample based and allergic to bouncing/freezing, 64GB is not really optional IMHO

 

[Vehrka]

Yes - I was specifically replying to someone who seemed to be using mostly synths, with some orchestral, and was debating between an M1 and a Pro/Max. It's easy to talk ourselves into spending more via "what if I end up doing X down the line?", but I think a Pro/32GB config is a nice mid-point, giving room to grow without talking yourself into buying a more expensive machine "just in case".

Yeah that was me and thank you! Good advice indeed. I think I'm going to go for the 16" base M1 Max with 32 gigs as the upgrade from the M1 Pro to M1 Max is only $200 compared to the $400 upgrade for 64 gigs of RAM. Again, right now I only have a couple of Orchestral Tools libraries but I plan on maybe buying LASS 3 as well as maybe a couple of Spitfire libraries in the next year or so but I can't see that needing 64 GBs of RAM. Thank you for the advice

 

[Vik]

Don't forget that several companies recommend 32 gb just for using one of their libraries.

OT Berlin Strings:

"Recommended Specs
To host for example a full Berlin Strings template with all articulations we recommend 32 GB RAM. If you intend to use a lot of microphone positions and want to use a lot of collections, 64 GB is perfect."

VSL Synchron Strings 1:

"Recommended:

• Windows 10 (latest update, 64-bit), Intel Core i7/i9/Xeon
• macOS 10.12.6 (or higher), Intel Core i7/i9/Xeon
• 32 GB RAM
• AU/VST/AAX Native compatible host
• 88 key master keyboard"

 

[rnb_2]

Don't forget that several companies recommend 32 gb just for using one of their libraries.

OT Berlin Strings:

"Recommended Specs
To host for example a full Berlin Strings template with all articulations we recommend 32 GB RAM. If you intend to use a lot of microphone positions and want to use a lot of collections, 64 GB is perfect."

VSL Synchron Strings 1:

"Recommended:

• Windows 10 (latest update, 64-bit), Intel Core i7/i9/Xeon
• macOS 10.12.6 (or higher), Intel Core i7/i9/Xeon
• 32 GB RAM
• AU/VST/AAX Native compatible host
• 88 key master keyboard"

As I said, going with an M1 Max and 64GB is something you should probably know you need to do - users of those libraries would know what they need. It's the users that have a mix of VIs and aren't running a huge template that have decisions to make, based on what they need for the foreseeable future. I don't think that everyone should just get a 64GB M1 Max "just in case".

 

[rnb_2]

Yeah that was me and thank you! Good advice indeed. I think I'm going to go for the 16" base M1 Max with 32 gigs as the upgrade from the M1 Pro to M1 Max is only $200 compared to the $400 upgrade for 64 gigs of RAM. Again, right now I only have a couple of Orchestral Tools libraries but I plan on maybe buying LASS 3 as well as maybe a couple of Spitfire libraries in the next year or so but I can't see that needing 64 GBs of RAM. Thank you for the advice

Glad I could help, and I understand your thinking, but understand that the $200 you're spending to get the Max isn't going to make the machine any better for your purposes if you don't also upgrade the RAM to 64GB. The extra GPU cores aren't going to help with music software at all - the GPU in the Pro is likely overkill for composers - and the extra memory bandwidth will never get used, since it takes a task that maxes out the 32-core GPU to get close to saturating it.

If you were looking at spending that $200 to open up the 64GB option for you, that's something that could make a difference down the line, but it's not going to do anything for you unless you see yourself doing some high-end video work that will take advantage of the extra video hardware on the Max.

In fairness, none of the upgrade steps in the M1 Pro/Max line (other than storage) is terribly expensive, so it's not a big leap in cost to just go for the top of the line. You can certainly treat it as "insurance" of a sort that the machine will handle whatever you throw at it in the future. That said, I wouldn't spend the $200 on the Max without upgrading the RAM unless you see high-end video work in your future.

 

[Ivan M.]

what if I end up doing X down the line, but I think a Pro/32GB config is a nice mid-point

Yeah, agreed. If extra memory is not needed immediatelly, then that's a very expensive "what if". We'll be buying new one's anyway, there's always something better next year.

 

[Vik]

We'll be buying new one's anyway, there's always something better next year.

Many of the 'what should I buy'-questions relate to how often one wants to or can afford to sell the Mac and buy a new one. If the plan is to keep it only for a tear or two, the real question is of course what one needs for that period (except that buying a Mac with great video editing specs makes it easier to find someone who wants tp pay for it later).
And – to rnb: regarding ' going with an M1 Max and 64GB is something you should probably know you need to do', what about all those who post that they don't know what they need? We have all been there and in a way most of us still are...