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Need feedback on piano sound

C

Composery

Member
Hey everyone, I'm creating a series of 36 sound files, and I've just completed the first one. Music production isn't my strong suit, so I'm reaching out for your help to ensure I don't have to redo everything again. That's been a nightmare for me in the past, and I'd like to avoid it this time.

I'm using PianoTeq for the piano sound. While I personally think it sounds okay, I've come across messages from producers who claim PianoTeq sucks. However, all I need to know is: does this sound reasonable? These files are just for demo purposes; I'm not planning to sell them or add them to any libraries.
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Attachments

  • Voluntary_1-1_Allegretto.mp3
    2.2 MB
To me, it sounds a bit thin and maybe in PianoTeq there are audio controls to play with that could help. I don't really know that VST so I have no advice on that. I do have a ton of other pianos, and I personally would use a different VST to try for this passage. I'd try a VST based on samples rather than physical modeling, which I believe PianoTeq is. Do you have any other piano VSTs to compare with? A decent standard that lots of people have is Native Instruments Noire, for instance. Up from there are several of the VSL pianos.
 
I agree this sounds thin. It's lacking body; almost as if you added a HP filter.

That said, I think it's fine if it's just for demo purposes.
 
quietmind said:
To me, it sounds a bit thin and maybe in PianoTeq there are audio controls to play with that could help. I don't really know that VST so I have no advice on that. I do have a ton of other pianos, and I personally would use a different VST to try for this passage. I'd try a VST based on samples rather than physical modeling, which I believe PianoTeq is. Do you have any other piano VSTs to compare with? A decent standard that lots of people have is Native Instruments Noire, for instance. Up from there are several of the VSL pianos.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Do you think physical modeling often makes a thin sound? I have other pianos, but I prefer physical modeling because I believe it's the future. Though it might be too early, for now, I should stick to a sampled one.

I'll try out the NI Noire. It might help me hear the difference between a thin and a more standard sound, though I'm not great with audio controls.
 
HarmonKard said:
I agree this sounds thin. It's lacking body; almost as if you added a HP filter.

That said, I think it's fine if it's just for demo purposes.
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Thanks, HarmonKard. The thin sound concerns me. I've paused the other sound files for now. Even though it's just for demos, if I can improve the sound a bit without much effort, I'd like to give it a try.
 
The NI Noire piano doesn't offer a free trial. Also, after reading an article about it, I found out it's a good piano, but it requires a lot of effort to set up. It's not something you can just start playing immediately. Since I'm not very good at handling technical things, I think it's best not to take the chance. So back to the drawing board.

I had a go at PianoTeq again, but now I knew what to look for. I think I managed to make it sound better. This is the new version.
 

Attachments

  • Voluntary_1-1_Allegretto-2.mp3
    2.2 MB
Composery said:
The NI Noire piano doesn't offer a free trial. Also, after reading an article about it, I found out it's a good piano, but it requires a lot of effort to set up. It's not something you can just start playing immediately. Since I'm not very good at handling technical things, I think it's best not to take the chance. So back to the drawing board.

I had a go at PianoTeq again, but now I knew what to look for. I think I managed to make it sound better. This is the new version.
Click to expand...
Your second rendition is better.

But I am not sure what people are talking about with NI Noire. I found it extremely easy to set up. The "pure" piano's default option is all you really need for this allegretto.

Regarding physical modeling vs samples, at the moment, samples still have a more realistic quality, esp for pianos and other one-shots, because all the room info and the complexity of the timbre are recorded directly into the waveforms and will play back with that same complexity. Physical modeling is a set of mathematical formulas that generate aspects of the total sound, and as of yet, they do not sum to produce the complexity and nuance captured in a recorded sample, thus they do not sound as realistic.

Regards the future of VI's, modeling and hybrid solutions improving, no doubt, and they also do afford those desirable greater controls, esp for connected-note instruments where note transitions can be more flexibly playable. However, it is probable that AI-based VI's that originate in models like diffusion will overtake those developments and be the next future if not this coming one.
 
To me the biggest issue is not that it's thin but that it sounds artificial. Maybe if you introduced more variation the MIDI it would sound better?
 
Pier said:
To me the biggest issue is not that it's thin but that it sounds artificial. Maybe if you introduced more variation the MIDI it would sound better?
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I would have to edit more than 36 midis. It's just for demo purposes. People like to hear how it sounds before they play the music. I've never quite understood why. The idea is to read the music and imagine how it sounds in your mind. But I don't want to seem like I'm judging anyone for it. I accept that you can be a fine musician without formal training, like by watching YouTube videos, reading books, or living next door to a music professor.
 
I'm sure that Toontrack EZKeys has an option for easy "humanization" of on-the-grid MIDI parts. It seems like Logic 11, out in a few days, might have something similar coming, too.

I agree that modeled technology is extremely cool and exciting, and also currently still behind sample libraries in terms of sound. In the meantime, I think Garritan CFX would probably be great for demos of solo piano pieces, and isn't too expensive for its high quality.

Modeling for analog synths and audio-electrical signal processing has gotten phenomenally good in the past decade, I'm sure modeled acoustic instruments will get there! I'll be very excited for instruments that are a bit leaner on hard drive space, that's for sure.
 
Composery said:
However, all I need to know is: does this sound reasonable? These files are just for demo purposes; I'm not planning to sell them or add them to any libraries.
Click to expand...
It sounds good enough for a demo. If you're not using this as the final product, stop worrying about the exact piano sounds and VST setup.

On the other hand, if you're using this for a final work, then I'd say it doesn't sound up to par.
 
dickiefunk said:
Do you know if these are coming soon?
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New Libraries keep coming up. The new Premier Sound Factory brings Kontakt based piano libraries to a new level. I am optimistic about the next major piano libraries from well-known developers like Garritan, Synthogy, VILabs, VSL, Modartt, Native Instrument and many unknown new developers.

If possible, you can compare Eastwest Boesendorfer Imperial 2003, Native Instruments Akoustik Pianos 2004 or now called Classic Pianos Collection, Galaxy Pianos II 2007, Alicia Keys 2010, The Definitive Pianos 2014, C.Bechstein Digital 2016, Noire 2019, Production Voices 300 Grand 2021, Premier Sound Factory Kawai Legend 2023, to see how Kontakt pianos evolve.

I like Pianoteq but the sound isn't like the piano sound recorded by Decca or DG. It's making progress and that's promising. Sampled pianos libraries have some playability issues, and they are also making progress. So, I am looking forward to the next level products that will come up in the future.

Also, if it's OK you can share some midis, and ask people who have Garritan CFX, or Ivory III, or VSL to render some samples for you and see how the difference is.
 
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