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LOTR: The One Ring Theme: What Strings?

JohnS said:
All my attempts to include more close mics from BBCSO only lead to more harshness.
In the original, I hear it further back, and smooth.
My best attempt so far is this (BBCSO Violins1, Stereo Mic, Vibrato halfway, EQ ~+4dB high-shelf, highpass from ~800Hz to get rid of some resin, a bit of tail reverb: Dragonfly Hall):


View attachment LOTR-OneRing1.mp3
Click to expand...
All the stereo mics from all the instruments are panned to the center. Keep that in mind when working with them. Another option is to use the Close Wide (which also needs to be panned) and a bit of Tree. Then use some eq and reverb.
 
Francisco Lamolda said:
All the stereo mics from all the instruments are panned to the center. Keep that in mind when working with them.
Click to expand...
Sure, but as I mentioned earlier, since the original was most probably recorded using v1 & v2 placed on both sides of the tree, this gave similar effect to larger section recorded centrally with dedicated Stereo mics.
Francisco Lamolda said:
Another option is to use the Close Wide (which also needs to be panned) and a bit of Tree.
Click to expand...
As I say, using any close mics gives more resin, which spoils the sounds.
Francisco Lamolda said:
Then use some eq and reverb.
Click to expand...
That seems to be the best way so far.
 
JohnS said:
Which string library and/or additional treatment is needed to obtain that silky bright violins sound like in this example of LOTR: The One Ring theme?:


I can't replicate it using BBCSO.
BO seems closer, but still lacking.

Any recommendations?
Click to expand...

Get Abbey Road One: Soaring High Strings and layer it with one or more of the BBCSO solo violins (if you have BBCSO Pro). Additional layering is up to you. I find Soaring High Strings to be a magical little library that gives you a legit Abbey Road sound for cheap.

View attachment Hobbit Strings 1.mp3
View attachment Hobbit Strings 2.mp3
 
I was thinking maybe Century Strings would work (they generally have a brighter character). Here's the passage between 0:14-0:29 in the example:

View attachment lotr.mp3
That's Mix B. I deleted the other mic positions (to save disk space), otherwise I would've tried a blend with more of the three close mics. There's a +2 dB high shelf (and a slight cut around 2k, something like Gullfoss would probably be nice here). I also put a touch of LX480 on it with my homebrewed "Abbey Road" preset, just for good measure.

HOOPUS probably could pull this off as well. Might post a version later if I have time.
 
This particular example sounds like it's a smaller string ensemble in either a smaller space or more close mics for that intimate presence.

One thing you could look at doing if you have any half-symphonic or chamber-sized string libraries is to have the ensemble play at a restrained dynamic and vibrato level, then layer in a first chair/solo string on top that is going harder on the dynamics/vibrato and turn down the volume until it sits in nicely.

I find oftentimes when a piece sounds extremely emotional but retains a "chill" quality to it, the above combination of ensemble strings playing in a more reserved fashion and a soloist going full ham on top but lower volume really helps to emulate those performances.
 
JohnS said:
Sure, but as I mentioned earlier, since the original was most probably recorded using v1 & v2 placed on both sides of the tree, this gave similar effect to larger section recorded centrally with dedicated Stereo mics.
Click to expand...
Yep, but recreating that violins setting is hard in the way libs are recorded nowadays. Using standard mic position and reversing the image won't work because you're technically reversing the seats of V2 and Viola. And it can create some issues with the room. And Celli are placed in the seats of V2, with basses behind the former. It's just really difficult to recreate. The solutions that comes to my mind are: using ARO pop mics, there fore loosing some of the magic of the tree and outriggers, or using some lib recorded in a completely dry space like the old VSL. Or using a lib that was actually recorded with that sitting. But I don't think such lib exists.
 
Trash Panda said:
This particular example sounds like it's a smaller string ensemble in either a smaller space or more close mics for that intimate presence.
Click to expand...
Right, that's what I'm leaning to.
Smaller ensemble with focus on first chair or on good quality close mic signal.
Trash Panda said:
One thing you could look at doing if you have any half-symphonic or chamber-sized string libraries is to have the ensemble play at a restrained dynamic and vibrato level, then layer in a first chair/solo string on top that is going harder on the dynamics/vibrato and turn down the volume until it sits in nicely.

I find oftentimes when a piece sounds extremely emotional but retains a "chill" quality to it, the above combination of ensemble strings playing in a more reserved fashion and a soloist going full ham on top but lower volume really helps to emulate those performances.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I don't have any chamber strings. I hope someone will chime in with VSL Elite Strings or Spitfire SCS rendering. I have OT BO, but it's only a single mix. I'll try your idea with BBCSO V1 or V2 (Stereo mic) + V1 and/or V2 solo (Stereo mic).
 
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JohnS said:
But that doesn't mean the same room,
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Well, maybe? There is another pretty big room there in which you could record a good sized section, but everyone loves the big one; it's a magic room. Huge volume of air and an incredibly high ceiling, which I always guessed was the secret.


Henrik B. Jensen said:
Did you try layering in the section leader in BBCSO?
Click to expand...
good idea -- or even better, hire someone to play a solo part and mix it in. Be sure he doesn't mic it too closely though.
 
JohnS said:
Right, that's what I'm leaning to.
Smaller ensemble with focus on first chair or on good quality close mic signal.

Unfortunately, I don't have any chamber strings. I hope someone will chime in with VSL Elite Strings or Spitfire SCS rendering. I have OT BO, but it's only a single mix. I'll try your idea with BBCSO V1 or V2 (Stereo mic) + V1 and/or V2 solo (Stereo mic).
Click to expand...
You could also try the Mid microphones if the Stereo and Close mics add too much rosin sound. If you're using microphones that have the string sections centered, you can use stereo panning or a plugin like PanBox (Smart Pan) or Vienna Power Panner (Stereo panning and/or Spectral Panning) to place them at the right spot in the stereo field without causing imaging issues of the room.
 
JohnS said:
Unfortunately, I don't have any chamber strings. I hope someone will chime in with VSL Elite Strings or Spitfire SCS rendering.
Click to expand...
I only have SCS essentials, but here goes (might still be interesting to compare if anyone has a full version). Violin 1+2 playing in unison with Close at -12 dB and Tree at 0 dB:

View attachment lotr-scs.mp3

Edit: Here's a version with less vibrato (ca 40%):
View attachment lotr-scs-v2.mp3

Here's also my attempt with Hollywood Strings 18 Violins (Close + Main mics 50/50):
View attachment lotr-hoopus.mp3

If it's at all helpful, I can run it the example through some other libraries I have.
 
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syrinx said:
I only have SCS essentials, but here goes (might still be interesting to compare if anyone has a full version). Violin 1+2 playing in unison with Close at -12 dB and Tree at 0 dB:

View attachment lotr-scs.mp3
Click to expand...
Well too much vibrato ruins the effect.
syrinx said:
Here's also my attempt with Hollywood Strings 18 Violins (Close + Main mics 50/50):
View attachment lotr-hoopus.mp3

If it's at all helpful, I can run it the example through some other libraries I have.
Click to expand...
Sure, I'd love to hear more examples if they do approach to the reference track. However I'd rather not turn this thread into "101 different ways to play the same motif" ;)
 
Thank you all for the contributions.
I do appreciate all the opinions about how the original sound could have been created (section size, room, miking, mixing, EQ, etc.), as much as how to recreate it using VIs.
 
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I guess one of the problem we see here is that we all have this theme so imprinted in memory, that we tend to paint it from memory, not necessarily precisely mimicking the specific example I've linked. And we tend to accept all possible versions, since the motif is so familiar. I catch myself doing this. 😀
 
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