Looking for comparison video/audio of Seventh Heaven vs. Reverberate 2

[WindcryMusic]

I have long owned Reverberate 2 with the Bricasti Fusion IRs, but for years now I’ve been reading raves about Seventh Heaven. I’ve presumed that Reverberate 2 plus the Fusion IR tech was probably the technological basis of Seventh Heaven, and as such I’ve wondered if they might sound largely the same … and to date I’ve never found an audio comparison of the two, something that might convince me there would be a noticeable benefit for getting Seventh Heaven. Does anyone know if such a comparison exists, or if not, might there be someone here who owns both and who can post a few audio files comparing the two with similar settings and on the same source material?

(Note that I’ve also held back on Seventh Heaven because of iLok, but without going into details, after years of resistance I’m now at least beginning to consider the possibility of giving in and installing the software version thereof at some point in order to gain access to things like Seventh Heaven, Cinematic Rooms, etc. If I had confidence that Seventh Heaven would be a significant step up from the Bricasti Fusion IRs in Reverberate 2, such knowledge could help push me in that direction.)

Click to read more...

 

[Junolab]

I dont know the difference between Reverberate 2 and 3 but as far as I know it's the same samples. It's just the UX and a few more options on SHP you get by buying it. You can always write Matt at Liquidsonics. He usually a fast replier.

 

[darcvision]

both are similiar but the most obvious difference between them are seventh heaven is plugin that emulating bricasti m7 using algorythm and reverberate2 is just convolution reverb (samples based) which you could load any impulse response including bricasti m7 IR.

with seventh heaven, you can tweak many parameter inside it which is more versatile rather than reverberate2.

about the sounds difference, i guess its very hard to tell which one is better..... but you can research in this forum about seventh heaven. many people in here swear to seventh heaven because its the best bricasti m7 plugin. personally i don't have this plugin because i like using bricasti m7 IR which is free and its sounds good imo

 

[WindcryMusic]

@darcvision - I've been under the impression that Seventh Heaven is still using IRs under the hood, rather than being fully algorithmic. Do you have any trustworthy references that indicate otherwise? As far as researching Seventh Heaven in the forum is concerned, I've already done that, and already know that lots of people think it is great. But what I haven't found is whether or not it is actually that much better than or different from the Bricasti Fusion IRs in Reverberate 2, which I think is also very good. I've not even found any textual descriptions of users doing such a comparison, much less actual audio examples. I'm probably not going to buy Seventh Heaven without that information in advance ... I don't want to pay more money (and install iLok) only to end up pretty much having a duplicate of something I already have.

@Junolab - I wasn't asking about differences between Reverberate 2 and 3. I was asking about audible differences between Reverberate 2 and Seventh Heaven. And I don't want to ask Matt about this, because he obviously wants to sell copies of Seventh Heaven so I already know he's going to say the one I don't own is better. I'm looking for non-biased opinion about the audible differences between them.

 

[doctoremmet]

I've been under the impression that Seventh Heaven is still using IRs under the hood, rather than being fully algorithmic.

It is indeed still IR based but behaves more like an algo based one, in terms of modulation possibilities. IIRC, Reverberate and 7H are quite similar in that they both rely on this technology / concept.

Convolution Reverbs - Why Fusion-IR technology is difffernt - LiquidSonics

Not all convolution reverbs are the same - this article explains why LiquidSonics vastly superior Fusion-IR convolution reverbs plugins sound better.

www.liquidsonics.com

 

[WindcryMusic]

It is indeed still IR based but behaves more like an algo based one.

Convolution Reverbs - Why Fusion-IR technology is difffernt - LiquidSonics

Not all convolution reverbs are the same - this article explains why LiquidSonics vastly superior Fusion-IR convolution reverbs plugins sound better.

www.liquidsonics.com

And that's the source of my question: the Fusion-IR tech behind Seventh Heaven is evidently the very same technology used for the Bricasti IRs in Reverberate 2. If the sound of Seventh Heaven is pretty much the same and it just allows for more tweaking ... well, I've not even made much use of the tweaking in Reverberate 2, so in that case I don't think a Seventh Heaven purchase would be smart for me. And that's why I was hoping to actually hear an audio comparison of the two, because it's the only way to be sure it would be worthwhile for me.

 

[Junolab]

Seventh Heaven - Your Questions Answered

Your questions about Seventh Heaven, Seventh Heaven Professional and Fusion-IR M7 captures answered

www.liquidsonics.com

Personally I'm not a fan of tweaking IRs and I think Matt have really made a brilliant IR-ish plugin which completely feels like an algo reverb. If money is tight you should spend the money to update Reverberate instead. Its awesome and a great deal! However if there's a bit money to spare, don't underestimate userbility

 

[WindcryMusic]

Seventh Heaven - Your Questions Answered

Your questions about Seventh Heaven, Seventh Heaven Professional and Fusion-IR M7 captures answered

www.liquidsonics.com

Personally I'm not a fan of tweaking IRs and I think Matt have really made a brilliant IR-ish plugin which completely feels like an algo reverb. If money is tight you should spend the money to update Reverberate instead. Its awesome and a great deal! However if there's a bit money to spare, don't underestimate userbility

The problem with updating Reverberate is that version 3 also uses iLok. That's the biggest cost to me, not the price of the product. Similarly, I could just install the Seventh Heaven demo and compare things for myself ... again, IF I install iLok first (which the demo requires), and I am very reluctant to do that until I know I am going to be purchasing plugins that require it. (I don't want to turn this into another discussion about iLok ... just know that I have longstanding reasons for being hesitant about it. Hence my wish to determine whether plugins like Seventh Heaven that require it are things that I want and which would make it worthwhile to risk putting the iLok manager software on my computers.)

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

The problem with updating Reverberate is that version 3 also uses iLok. That's the biggest cost to me, not the price of the product. Similarly, I could just install the Seventh Heaven demo and compare things for myself ... again, IF I install iLok first (which the demo requires), and I am very reluctant to do that until I know I am going to be purchasing plugins that require it. (I don't want to turn this into another discussion about iLok ... just know that I have longstanding reasons for being hesitant about it. Hence my wish to determine whether plugins like Seventh Heaven that require it are things that I want and which would make it worthwhile to risk putting the iLok manager software on my computers.)

Just try demo using the iLok Could license, no dongle required. I've never had an issue.

 

[WindcryMusic]

Just try demo using the iLok Could license, no dongle required. I've never had an issue.

Read what I wrote more carefully. It’s the iLok SOFTWARE that I have misgivings about. Without going into detail, in the past I had a computer completely rendered completely unusable by PACE software, and although I am aware that there haven’t been as many such problems with their more recent software, I’d hope you’d understand if I now feel some reluctance to risk the same thing on an infinitely more expensive and irreplaceable studio computer. You know the saying “fool me once, shame on you … fool me twice, shame on me”, right?

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

Read what I wrote more carefully. It’s the iLok SOFTWARE that I have misgivings about. Without going into detail, in the past I had a computer completely rendered completely unusable by PACE software, and although I am aware that there haven’t been as many such problems with their more recent software, I’d hope you’d understand if I now feel some reluctance to risk the same thing on an infinitely more expensive and irreplaceable studio computer. You know the saying “fool me once, shame on you … fool me twice, shame on me”, right?

Understood. If you're not willing to install the iLok software, then I'd not even consider Seventh Heaven whatsoever.

 

[WindcryMusic]

I didn’t say I wasn’t willing, either.

Let me make one final try, since it seems everyone continues to misunderstand me or fixate on the iLok element (which is why I was reluctant to even bring it up). I MAY be willing to risk the installation of the iLok software, if I have evidence or at least a good reason to think Seventh Heaven offers an audibly improved Bricasti emulation as compared to Reverberate 2. Is there really no one who has owned/used both plugins, no one who can actually address that question? It feels like there’s some unwritten rule “thou shalt not compare Seventh Heaven to the earlier Bricasti Fusion-IRs of Reverberate 2”.

 

[Junolab]

I didn’t say I wasn’t willing, either.

Let me make one final try, since it seems everyone continues to misunderstand me or fixate on the iLok element (which is why I was reluctant to even bring it up). I MAY be willing to risk the installation of the iLok software, if I have evidence or at least a good reason to think Seventh Heaven offers an audibly improved Bricasti emulation as compared to Reverberate 2. Is there really no one who has owned/used both plugins, no one who can actually address that question? It feels like there’s some unwritten rule “thou shalt not compare Seventh Heaven to the earlier Bricasti Fusion-IRs of Reverberate 2”.

Well I'm not sure I want to help as there's a quite unhealthy unfriendly tone here. I said you could write Matt which you wouldn't as you wouldn't expect an honest reply from him. You could just ask of its the same files both plugin uses (which is what I'm pretty sure it is) and not ask what to update/buy, if that's your concern...

 

[HotCoffee]

I have Seventh Heaven Pro, and I don't believe I have demo'd Reverberate 3 yet. So I suppose I could activate a demo version and compare the two if you give me a description of what you need me to test. I can't promise anything, but if I have some time to kill, I'll help you out. Or maybe Rev. 2 is too different from Rev. 3?

By the way, I shared your fear of iLok for a long time. Who could forget the huge crapstorm they whipped up a few years ago, so I understand where you're coming from. Anyway, I have used it for a couple of years now without problems, and I really don't hear about people having issues these days.

 

[WindcryMusic]

Well I'm not sure I want to help as there's a quite unhealthy unfriendly tone here. I said you could write Matt which you wouldn't as you wouldn't expect an honest reply from him. You could just ask of its the same files both plugin uses (which is what I'm pretty sure it is) and not ask what to update/buy, if that's your concern...

Sorry about that, but it got a little frustrating when multiple people apparently didn’t actually read what I wrote but instead (it seems) just read the first few words and then filled in what they expected me to be asking (first responding about an upgrade from R2 to R3 when I’d never mentioned R3, then assuming I have the more typical objection to iLok dongles and telling me to just install the iLok software when I‘d stated in the previous post that it was the iLok software I was hesitant about, and then assuming that I refuse to install that software when I already said I’m at least considering it if I can determine the product in question is worth it for me).

A little earlier today I found something on a different website which suggests that Seventh Heaven may have a much larger IR set (meaning it would NOT be the same files) than R2, both because of sampling more program adjustments (e.g. tail length) and having separate IRs for different aspects of the reverb sound (maybe based upon frequency). That’s exactly the kind of factual information I’d absolutely be willing to ask Matt about, and I’m sure he’d be straight about it. But asking for a subjective determination of ”does it really sound better than your last one” from any product maker is bound to be unfruitful … that’s not an indictment of Matt’s or anyone‘s integrity, it’s just the nature of doing business. I can’t imagine calling a company to ask if their new product is any better than their old one and expecting them to reply “no, you shouldn’t buy our new one … it’s not as good, and we don’t want your money.”

 

[WindcryMusic]

I have Seventh Heaven Pro, and I don't believe I have demo'd Reverberate 3 yet. So I suppose I could activate a demo version and compare the two if you give me a description of what you need me to test. I can't promise anything, but if I have some time to kill, I'll help you out. Or maybe Rev. 2 is too different from Rev. 3?

By the way, I shared your fear of iLok for a long time. Who could forget the huge crapstorm they whipped up a few years ago, so I understand where you're coming from. Anyway, I have used it for a couple of years now without problems, and I really don't hear about people having issues these days.

I’m not sure if R3 is too different from R2 or not. I guess that R3 is unlikely to have implemented the same detailed Bricasti stuff that I now suspect may be in Seventh Heaven, because doing so would sort of be a case of R3 cannibalizing the latter. So a comparison of R3 and Seventh Heaven Pro might be useful.

If you do find a few minutes to make a quick comparison clip or two, that would be fantastic (and if it turns out that you can’t, I still appreciate the offer). I think it would be sufficient to test a typical scoring stage type of reverb setting (1.5 to 2 seconds) with a few string staccatos, brass staccatos and dry drum hits … that would hopefully give me enough information to decide whether I want to finally take the risk with iLok to get the demo for myself, or not.

I know the prevailing wisdom is that iLok isn’t nearly as system destructive as their old PACE Interlok software was, and I do think it likely that I wouldn’t have any trouble with it, but my experience with Interlok was SO bad (had to spend $3K to entirely replace the corrupted computer) that I’m still really gunshy about giving them another chance. Seventh Heaven and/or Cinematic Rooms are about the only plugins that might push me into taking that risk again.

 

[MusicIstheBest]

You should get 7th Heaven. But keep in mind it does requires iLok software...don't know if that was mentioned.

 

[WindcryMusic]

You should get 7th Heaven. But keep in mind it does requires iLok software...don't know if that was mentioned.

Hehe … I’m going to assume this is some mild ribbing about my expression of frustration above.

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

I‘d stated in the previous post that it was the iLok software I was hesitant about, and then assuming that I refuse to install that software when I already said I’m at least considering it if I can determine the product in question is worth it for me).

Not trying to be a jerk here, but in order to hear a true comparison, it would be ideal to do the comparisons are your own system. That way you’ll ensure the test is exactly right your specs.

I’ll get my coat…..

 

[WindcryMusic]

Not trying to be a jerk here, but in order to hear a true comparison, it would be ideal to do the comparisons are your own system. That way you’ll you the test is exactly right your specs.

I’ll get my coat…..

That’s actually the next step, if only I can determine that there‘s enough audible difference between the R2 Bricasti and 7H to justify installing that library manager in order to demo it myself. Certainly I wouldn’t actually purchase anything without doing that test in my own studio, and in fact I’d have just done that right away if not for that pesky iLok software requirement for the demo.