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Legato Update for Berlin Strings (2024)

I think those things just slipped through their QC..
I can 100% assure you that this is not a bug we missed. The triplets do not work like they did in Kontakt absolutely by design.
You might like the Kontakt behaviour better, or prefer the way it is in SINE now, but the change was deliberate and we did not miss it.
I think any of the testers that raised this change on day one of SINE testing can confirm ;)
 
I can 100% assure you that this is not a bug we missed. The triplets do not work like they did in Kontakt absolutely by design.
You might like the Kontakt behaviour better, or prefer the way it is in SINE now, but the change was deliberate and we did not miss it.
I think any of the testers that raised this change on day one of SINE testing can confirm ;)
What about doubles then? Why on some strings sections it works with second note on release of the key while on the other sections it doesn't? Thanks for chimin in! :)
 
So here are some tests (Violin 1):

Kontakt Triples
View attachment Kontakt Triples.mp3

Sine Triplets (first pass even velocity, second pass, second and third notes of pattern at lower velocity)
[ETA: This is now fixed.]

View attachment Sine Triplets1.mp3

Sine Staccato (two passes as above)

View attachment Sine Staccato.mp3

Sine Spiccato (two passes as above)

View attachment Sine Spiccato.mp3

Sine Spiccato serial (two passes as above)

View attachment Sine Spiccato Serial.mp3

Sine Spiccato short (two passes as above, velocity increased to increase volume)

View attachment Sine Spiccato Short.mp3

And then all of them in sequence

View attachment Berlin Strings Triplet test.mp3
 
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The Sine functionality permits setting velocity for each note in a way that the Kontakt functionality does not. Kontakt also doesn't give you any control over the placement of the second and third notes. So there is some functional improvement there over the Kontakt version.

Before I did this test I thought the Triplet in Sine was fairly redundant and that the other shorts nearly always gave better performances. Messing around with it yesterday, that was my impression, and the triplets remain quite tempo limited. But I no longer want to say that the triplets are redundant or that the Sine implementation is not a marked improvement over Kontakt.

I don't recall OT ever mentioning the change in the walkthrough for the Sine version of Berlin Strings. It would be nice if they did so, because it's not obvious how the articulation is supposed to work, especially given how the doubles work.
 
I get your point, but in the end, it is a lot of wasted time… can’t we focus on more important things?

And seriously, try not comparing some libraries with a car that could end your life, man! It’s just a library…
Constant negativity and complaining is a waste of time. Reaching out to others to confirm bugs, find workarounds, etc is a very good constructive thing to do--that's kind of the point of the forum. Sometimes both things are happening at the same time
 
So here are some tests (Violin 1):

Kontakt Triples
View attachment Kontakt Triples.mp3

Sine Triplets (first pass even velocity, second pass, second and third notes of pattern at lower velocity)

View attachment 124849
The triplets do sound good to me in your second pass, where you lowered the velocity of the subsequent notes. But they sound kind of "broken" in the first pass, where the velocities are consistent. Or at least, I don't hear 3 distinct notes in that version.
 
The triplets do sound good to me in your second pass, where you lowered the velocity of the subsequent notes. But they sound kind of "broken" in the first pass, where the velocities are consistent. Or at least, I don't hear 3 distinct notes in that version.
Yeah, the stumble only occurs in the first set of triplets, then it rights itself. If you listen to the full set (the final longer example), you'll notice that there isn't the same issue when it passes through the same passage. It's the same midi, so there is some issue caused by starting the bounce that isn't present otherwise. I may go back and see if I can figure out what happened. I only listened to the bounce after I uploaded and haven't been at the rig to correct it.
 
Ok, so I looked closer into the doubles - there is double in V2 - works with 2nd note on release of the first note. And there is double in V1 which works like all the usual shorts do (both are set with CC1 controlling velocity, but that is easily switched to key velocity in Sine)
 
Ok, so I looked closer into the doubles - there is double in V2 - works with 2nd note on release of the first note. And there is double in V1 which works like all the usual shorts do (both are set with CC1 controlling velocity, but that is easily switched to key velocity in Sine)
Hmm. My Sine V1 doubles triggers on note off (though not reliably when playing). I'll check this out and confirm when I'm back at the rig.
 
The triplets do sound good to me in your second pass, where you lowered the velocity of the subsequent notes. But they sound kind of "broken" in the first pass, where the velocities are consistent. Or at least, I don't hear 3 distinct notes in that version.
This is fixed in the files above. I'm not sure what happened with that original bounce, because I just went back into the project and bounced the same bit again, and it now seems correct.
 
I have such huge problems every time an update is going out.
Downloads stops, or going up to several hours per mic, or the downloader halts not showing anything or progressing.

Anyone is facing this?

OT support have been useless on this specific issue. Recommending to delete files, reinstall the entire library etc, which is not helping, just making things worst.
Unfortunately the same thing here even though it's been nearly 3 months since the release of the BS update and it's my first try to update the library.

I don't understand what kind of a protocol does SINE use for connections when downloading stuff but it just makes me crazy. At first I thought it has something to do with my hotspot connection(mobile phone providing the connection when I'm travelling). But when I check with my speeds, I can download with speeds up to 8-9 MB/s (megabytes). Yet, SINE randomly either halts in the middle of the downloads or sometimes never completes them (making me delete all downloaded chunks and start everything all over again, which also counts against my mobile data usage since I have to download GB's of data over and over again). Sometimes the counter/indicator on progress bar goes crazy and goes up to several hours despite that I have a healthy and fast connection ... etc etc etc...

I'm always having problems with SINE downloads unless I'm on a very very very stable home network with ridiculously high bandwidth internet... I have also never seen the resuming function work. It's either done at first try or it won't complete downloading etc...

SINE......
(And OT would be releasing a nice update for SINE player in the Q1 of 2024, it's April now and I still have hopes for summer or the fall)...
 
Whatever quirks there might be I think BS are awesome - and one thing I really like is that they made legato transitions available for many articulations like portatos, marcatos and different longs, tremolos - this makes those articulations Much more useful for me and realistic - they also made individual legato levels for each articulation so it sounds appropriate! It would be cool to have Vibrato crossfading done out of the box though..!
Here's a little piece I'm writing now with BS only (default spot and tree levels)

View attachment Berlin Strings.mp3
 
Whatever quirks there might be I think BS are awesome - and one thing I really like is that they made legato transitions available for many articulations like portatos, marcatos and different longs, tremolos - this makes those articulations Much more useful for me and realistic - they also made individual legato levels for each articulation so it sounds appropriate! It would be cool to have Vibrato crossfading done out of the box though..!
Here's a little piece I'm writing now with BS only (default spot and tree levels)

View attachment Berlin Strings.mp3
That does sound very good! There's a lot of life. Did you switch articulations much here?
 
That does sound very good! There's a lot of life. Did you switch articulations much here?
Thanks! :) Not much, first there are pizzes, then tremolos on basses, cellos, violas and trills on 1st and 2nd violins and from 0:10-0:19 it's long portatos with legatos on all sections except 1st violins where it's expressive longs with legatos and then long portatos with legatos. After that it's all basic legato patches with vibrato on (I was lazy to do polymap switching to crossfade vibrato though it would probably make it sound better..!)
 
Thanks! :) Not much, first there are pizzes, then tremolos on basses, cellos, violas and trills on 1st and 2nd violins and from 0:10-0:19 it's long portatos with legatos on all sections except 1st violins where it's expressive longs with legatos and then long portatos with legatos. After that it's all basic legato patches with vibrato on (I was lazy to do polymap switching to crossfade vibrato though it would probably make it sound better..!)
That's a great way to do it. The portatos have some movement. Thanks!
 
That's a great way to do it. The portatos have some movement. Thanks!
Yeah, great thing about those other articulations with legato transitions is that you can play them normally too, but also utilize transitions when needed by overlapping notes so it's much more playable and very efficient, kudos to OT for that)
 
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