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It is impossible to "win" this legal battle.... And you should give up thinking you can.

That's not a sensible understanding of govt and economies at all.
Ok so if you know it all so well, please do explain to me how and why governments would give billions of unemployed people free money and how this would be sustainable in a long term.
I admit, I studied economics 20 years ago and from that rusty knowledge I don't see how this could be sustainable. Did something changed in the last 20 years of how governments operate?
 
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Ok so if you know it all so well, please do explain to me how and why governments would give billions of unemployed people free money and how this would be sustainable in a long term.
I admit, I studied economics 20 years ago and from that rusty knowledge I don't see how this could be sustainable. Did something changed in the last 20 years of how governments operate?
 
Ah yes, a one-man opinion mostly based on "how it could be if politicians would be fair towards their citizens and they would listen to me".
Yes, in a perfect world it could work like this but we are not living in a perfect world. We live in a world full of corrupt, sick, power-hungry people who despite anyone who is not on their level of wealth and/or social status. You can dream that those people will let people under them (as they like to call us? Rats? Peasants? Ants?) enjoy free money for being unemployed.

Don't get me wrong. I would be happy if the world were utopian and everyone could get UBI without any disadvantages like social credit score and fear that one day UBI may disappear without any reason (what you would do in that case after being born into UBI without any job experience and employment perspectives?). As long as still have purpose and life and the possibility to improve our life situation.
Unfortunately, I live long enough to know that there are very powerful people who will do anything to not let this happen. It wouldn't be "fun" for them.

Another thing: I was born in (at that time) a '3rd world country' and with my own hard work I managed to get to the '1st world' and raise my status significantly. I managed to do that since I learned that my fate is in my own hands. A lot of people that I know, who rely on the government, are exactly in the same place where they were 20, 30 years ago. They still blame the government for all their faults in life. I strongly believe that a world where our fate is in our hands is better than a world where we all rely on the money given to us by our 'master'. I can imagine how many people would never evolve if they didn't have to. Why even go to school if you don't have to learn anything because you'll still get UBI? I can see how flat earthers would become a dominant religion in that world ;)
 
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Ah yes, a one-man opinion mostly based on "how it could be if politicians would be fair towards their citizens and they would listen to me".
Yes, in a perfect world it could work like this but we are not living in a perfect world. We live in a world full of corrupt, sick, power-hungry people who despite anyone who is not on their level of wealth and/or social status. You can dream that those people will let people under them (as they like to call us? Rats? Peasants? Ants?) enjoy free money for being unemployed.

Don't get me wrong. I would be happy if the world were utopian and everyone could get UBI without any disadvantages like social credit score and fear that one day UBI may disappear without any reason (what you would do in that case after being born into UBI without any job experience and employment perspectives?). As long as still have purpose and life and the possibility to improve our life situation.
Unfortunately, I live long enough to know that there are very powerful people who will do anything to not let this happen. It wouldn't be "fun" for them.

Another thing: I was born in (at that time) a '3rd world country' and with my own hard work I managed to get to the '1st world' and raise my status significantly. I managed to do that since I learned that my fate is in my own hands. A lot of people that I know, who rely on the government, are exactly in the same place where they were 20, 30 years ago. They still blame the government for all their faults in life. I strongly believe that a world where our fate is in our hands is better than a world where we all rely on the money given to us by our 'master'. I can imagine how many people would never evolve if they didn't have to. Why even go to school if you don't have to learn anything because you'll still get UBI? I can see how flat earthers would become a dominant religion in that world ;)
We are going to see a push from those who are dreaming about communism and they want everybody to believe that it has never been implemented " correctly " lol , they are likely to be used as useful idiots by big tech . There is also a trend to blur the definition of certain words ( Orwell ) like equality / equity or capitalism / oligarchy . Being anti oligarchy doesn't mean being anti capitalist or a communist . Capitalism allows you to have you own business , be successful , provide for your family , become wealthier ... They don't want that ! It wasn't a surprise to see big tech advocating for UBI , they are truly scared of that transition .
 
Contemporary political ideologies are more about implementing ecologism and feminism, the concern for human / citizen rights has taken over from the old dusty dichotomy of capitalism vs communism. Nobody in political science talks about ideology like that anymore. A coherent society enforcing democratic civil rights are far more important than who runs the national administration budget.
 
We are going to see a push from those who are dreaming about communism and they want everybody to believe that it has never been implemented " correctly " lol , they are likely to be used as useful idiots by big tech . There is also a trend to blur the definition of certain words ( Orwell ) like equality / equity or capitalism / oligarchy . Being anti oligarchy doesn't mean being anti capitalist or a communist . Capitalism allows you to have you own business , be successful , provide for your family , become wealthier ... They don't want that ! It wasn't a surprise to see big tech advocating for UBI , they are truly scared of that transition .
I was born in communist country 😅 At the end of it, but I memorised a few "pictures" from that abstract mental era 😄
 
Contemporary political ideologies are more about implementing ecologism and feminism, the concern for human / citizen rights has taken over from the old dusty dichotomy of capitalism vs communism. Nobody in political science talks about ideology like that anymore. A coherent society enforcing democratic civil rights are far more important than who runs the national administration budget.
What about things like " intersectionality " or " equity " ? So far the wealthy class has managed to push for the kind of " ecologism " that exclusively impacts poor people , we got a Bill gates schooling everyone about not moving or eating bugs while being the single individual with the biggest carbon footprint in the world , for example he doesn't have a privet jet he has a fleet of private jets . When I see big corporations pushing this kind of things , I don't even give them the benefit of the doubt , I know that they are using that against us and the result is a constant transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top .
 
What about things like " intersectionality " or " equity " ? So far the wealthy class has managed to push for the kind of " ecologism " that exclusively impacts poor people , we got a Bill gates schooling everyone about not moving or eating bugs while being the single individual with the biggest carbon footprint in the world , for example he doesn't have a privet jet he has a fleet of private jets . When I see big corporations pushing this kind of things , I don't even give them the benefit of the doubt , I know that they are using that against us and the result is a constant transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top .
Yeah, sure all of those sets of ideas are in play. These ideologies aren't left/right, they are universal, so all political cabinets contemplate how they can implement them. The balls are thrown up in the air, that must be the reason nobody has any balls..

It is also relevant for AI, as how we implement human rights ideas into the designs, so AI doesn't reproduce past mistakes - which it does, because of the training on historical media data.
 
People do not really care for us. They just want to be entertained. In fact, in this society really most people just care for their own conditions to be good. As long as they find their work acceptable, get good services and products for cheap, they are fine with everything. And that is why AI will do its thing and take a lot of jobs away.

On the long term, however, the question is how long will that continue to work that way? We currently already have a lot of Bullshit Jobs (I refer to the term as in the book by Greaber). That means, quite a lot of the work we do does not have any actual value to society, which is often directly related to how well a job pays. The more jobs are paid the less the work is really required for society. Work that society really needs to keep running are usually not well-paid.

So, there already is an artificial layer of well-paid jobs that are actually there to consume and keep the system running. This will continue, otherwise there will be no goods to sell to anyone.

If this goes on in a similar way, I can see ourself to walk into a distopian kind of future like in the matrix (we are actually half there depending on which people you look at). We humans are actually only needed for the sake of keeping the system alive.

But how sustainable is that? When Bezos said he wanted to grow population, as we we would need 1000 Einsteins and 1000 Mozarts in the future, did he really think that out of such a population we would get so many geniuses? Just growing the number of people will not work in favor of that! The current trend will work in favor of us being there to keep the machines running and not the other way around. Not in the literal way of the movie, of course. But it is clear that all of those Einsteins and Mozarts will in fact have to be computers and robots, as we give up on developing human potential. And that is why we will only be there to keep the machine alive as long as it needs us.
 
Contemporary political ideologies are more about implementing ecologism and feminism, the concern for human / citizen rights has taken over from the old dusty dichotomy of capitalism vs communism. Nobody in political science talks about ideology like that anymore. A coherent society enforcing democratic civil rights are far more important than who runs the national administration budget.
actually people still talk about capitalism/communism/marxism all the time but perhaps not so much in the USA, which after all is just a small fraction of the global population. For example a Marxist might consider what is happening as primitive accumulation within a modern context. They might say that there has been a massive increase in demand for creative content but a shortage of the means for producing it - therefore capitalists will expropriate the means of production - in this case by using AI to steal the cultural capital that enables creation. Analogous to the famous enclosure of the commons.
A case for this in relation to biotechnologies and scientific knowledge in general has been made here https://nyupress.org/9781685900441/the-knowledge-economy-and-socialism/
 
People do not really care for us. They just want to be entertained. In fact, in this society really most people just care for their own conditions to be good. As long as they find their work acceptable, get good services and products for cheap, they are fine with everything. And that is why AI will do its thing and take a lot of jobs away.
Plenty of people with an opinion that art should be made for free. Because "I don't enjoy my day job so nobody should". Sometimes you can hear it right in your face. People have no shame in admitting that we should do music for free and they shouldn't need to pay for it.
But now even 'artists', like one of this famous singer/producer girl (I don't wanna put the wrong name here) is advocating for the removal of copyrights whatsoever. But she was married to a billionaire and now she is dating a popular DJ/producer - the son of a magnate family, so why would she care about people who may need money? Do they even exist? It's so abstract when you have enough money for a few generations upfront to live a luxurious life, ain't that right? ;)

Work for free.
Don't own anything.
Advocate for digital currency (ideally with an expiration date).
Keep scrolling TikTok.
Enjoy the amazing life of a peasant addicted to digital goods :rolleyes:
 
actually people still talk about capitalism/communism/marxism all the time but perhaps not so much in the USA, which after all is just a small fraction of the global population. For example a Marxist might consider what is happening as primitive accumulation within a modern context. They might say that there has been a massive increase in demand for creative content but a shortage of the means for producing it - therefore capitalists will expropriate the means of production - in this case by using AI to steal the cultural capital that enables creation. Analogous to the famous enclosure of the commons.
A case for this in relation to biotechnologies and scientific knowledge in general has been made here https://nyupress.org/9781685900441/the-knowledge-economy-and-socialism/
Yes, people /laymen talk about this in that way, but it is not state-of-the-art in political science at all. These are crude 18th century ideas, which has been transformed numerous times since, and our societies and cultures are very different today. So it hurts me when I see people talk in the language of those old dichotomies, which is still promoted by manipulating influencers and groups online. We have come so much further, and know so much more than what is being displayed and promoted online, yet this old stuff is still dominating public discourse. It's so sad to see and I think it misleads a lot of people into imaginary conflicts today.. but that's "soup de jour".
 
Yes, people /laymen talk about this in that way, but it is not state-of-the-art in political science at all. These are crude 18th century ideas, which has been transformed numerous times since, and our societies and cultures are very different today. So it hurts me when I see people talk in the language of those old dichotomies, which is still promoted by manipulating influencers and groups online. We have come so much further, and know so much more than what is being displayed and promoted online, yet this old stuff is still dominating public discourse. It's so sad to see and I think it misleads a lot of people into imaginary conflicts today.. but that's "soup de jour".
completely disagree but can you link me out to some of the new theoretical work you mention and I will give it a read and maybe change my views. Thanks
 
What’s with this xiǎo fěnhóng garbage on here? There is more than enough bit depth within social democracy to handle the problems you’re discussing. The deficiency is in lack of political will and mistrust (which, not incidentally, authoritarian regimes are doing their level best to maximize here right at the moment), not system architecture itself. It’s not even close. The onus is very, very much on you to discuss in detail how to solve the sociological—> political problem of leadership and elite corruption given the rivers of blood issuing from the obscene convulsions and failures of 20th century Leninism/bas-Marxism. Marx is great and, like Piketty, a brilliant theorist. It’s the implementation at scale that’s the bugger, you see. I mean what’s your model? The pansurveillant, hemi-capitalist coercion regime in Beijing? The murder-induced silence in Moscow? Is this some kind of bad joke?

And simultaneously, you’re telling this forum to just lie down and give up, in the face of raw theft by another name. GTFOOH.
 
What’s with this xiǎo fěnhóng garbage on here? There is more than enough bit depth within social democracy to handle the problems you’re discussing. The deficiency is in lack of political will and mistrust (which, not incidentally, authoritarian regimes are doing their level best to maximize here right at the moment), not system architecture itself. It’s not even close. The onus is very, very much on you to discuss in detail how to solve the sociological—> political problem of leadership and elite corruption given the rivers of blood issuing from the obscene convulsions and failures of 20th century Leninism/bas-Marxism. Marx is great and, like Piketty, a brilliant theorist. It’s the implementation at scale that’s the bugger, you see. I mean what’s your model? The pansurveillant, hemi-capitalist coercion regime in Beijing? The murder-induced silence in Moscow? Is this some kind of bad joke?

And simultaneously, you’re telling this forum to just lie down and give up, in the face of raw theft by another name. GTFOOH.
Possibly your response is to me even tho I said nothing about communism - my point has been to promote lobbying for an UBI which for some obscure reason seems to be opposed. Anyhow I take your advice
 
Plenty of people with an opinion that art should be made for free. Because "I don't enjoy my day job so nobody should". Sometimes you can hear it right in your face. People have no shame in admitting that we should do music for free and they shouldn't need to pay for it.
But now even 'artists', like one of this famous singer/producer girl (I don't wanna put the wrong name here) is advocating for the removal of copyrights whatsoever. But she was married to a billionaire and now she is dating a popular DJ/producer - the son of a magnate family, so why would she care about people who may need money? Do they even exist? It's so abstract when you have enough money for a few generations upfront to live a luxurious life, ain't that right? ;)

Work for free.
Don't own anything.
Advocate for digital currency (ideally with an expiration date).
Keep scrolling TikTok.
Enjoy the amazing life of a peasant addicted to digital goods :rolleyes:

Like I say, it's always the people who scream that all art should be free that always have the least to offer the talent pool.
 
I assume that the major record labels will lobby for laws that somehow allow them to indiscriminately make money off AI music but somehow "ban" small time creators from doing so + I assume the major record labels will also start incorporating AI clauses into their contracts so that they will not only own the masters but also the "musical likeness" of the artist
Remember when John Fogerty was sued by his former record label for sounding too much like himself on his new label?
 
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