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How to simulate bow up and down the same note

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kevinlee87

Member
First, sorry for my poor English

I'm Korean so please understand (South Korea not North haha) :D



I want to simulate (for example violin)

"bow down and up the same note repeatedly"



So I think, triggering <Bow same note Up> and <Bow same note Down> groups with certain keys(ex; C1 for Down, D1 for Up) while midi note is held down would be suitable



Can this be script in Kontakt?

I know it's not easy one, even though I don't know much of scripting

But please help me ! :cry:

Thank you;
Click to read more...
 
Well...

If I want to simulate bow up and down on the same note, I just make little CC11 changes, drawing in little dips then peaks to emulate the bowchange.

Not sure how I would do it another way. There is probs a better way though.
 
Kevin,

This is a great concept for a script. Hold down the note for pitch and do the alternating up/down bowing with Keyswitches. The initial note can be any articulation, a down bow, up bow, or whatever. So the up bow and down bow would have their own KS notes and derive pitch from a held note.

All I can do is support the concept; my scripting chops suck!

Mr A
 
You don't need a script to do that in Kontakt - it's just a matter of triggering the keygroup with a keyswitch.

But do you really want this? Wouldn't auto-alternation be better?

All modern string libraries handle this automatically anyway.
 
I'm not sure we're talking about the same approach here, correct me if I'm wrong.

Auto-alternation is when you re-attack a note and it triggers another keygroup, so you could go up-down, etc. by re-attacking the same note.

I'm under the impression Kevin wants to get this happening without re-attacking the note supplying the pitch, but get it from hitting other KS that can trigger the same note, so you would use your other hand to play the rhythm of the up-down alternation while you held the note supplying your "pitch". This could allow you to play really fast passages more easily, the repetitive note stuff for sure. It seems like a cool concept.

Make sense Nick?
 
Oh, I see.

Then you need to transpose all notes to the pitch-setting note. I'd use the Logic environment for that. It would transpose only notes outside the pitch-setting range.

Then you'd use auto-alternation to get the shifting bows.
 
I should have said "If I were going to do that I'd use the Logic environment." To me this seems like a brain energy sap while you're working. I personally would slow down the sequencer and keep making music.
 
If you're lucky enough to have keyboard chops, then performing these type of parts always sound a bit more realistic to me, IMHO.

I'm a Cubase user, not on Logic. Maybe there's a similar setup in Cubase, don't know.

Mr A
 
kevinlee87 @ Sun Sep 01 said:
I want to simulate (for example violin) "bow down and up the same note repeatedly"
Click to expand...
Hi,
If I understand correctly you need some sort of key toggling?
Here is a simple code example:
Code: 
on init
  message("")
  declare $k_tgl
end on

on note
  $k_tgl := 1-$k_tgl
  if ($k_tgl=1)
    message("bow Up") {Replace the message example with allow/disallow group}
  else
    message("bow Down") {Replace the message example with allow/disallow group}
  end if
end on

Somebody mentioned Logic Environment here...? It was my favorite food for the least 15 years but now I'd prefer to write a similar code (like the above one) directly in the new Logic X Scripter plugin.
Regards,
A.G
 
Mr. Anxiety @ Fri Sep 06 said:
Auto-alternation is when you re-attack a note and it triggers another keygroup, so you could go up-down, etc. by re-attacking the same note.

I'm under the impression Kevin wants to get this happening without re-attacking the note supplying the pitch, but get it from hitting other KS that can trigger the same note, so you would use your other hand to play the rhythm of the up-down alternation while you held the note supplying your "pitch". This could allow you to play really fast passages more easily, the repetitive note stuff for sure. It seems like a cool concept.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm talking about. Thank you Mr. Anxiety !

However it's more difficult to script than my thought.. I'd better hire a scriptor... but I don't know who can do this. Can anybody recommand someone?
 
So that's basically a bowed tremelo you're after?

I've created two patches, one is with scripting, the other doesn't have scripting and uses key switches only.

See attachements for the two patches. Note: they require the latest version of Kontakt to work. (5.2.0.xxxx)

The scripted version does this:

Code: 
on init
	declare $velo := 1200000
	declare $calc
end on

on note

	$calc := $EVENT_VELOCITY /10 * 100000
	ignore_event( $EVENT_ID )
	while($NOTE_HELD = 1)
	disallow_group($ALL_GROUPS)
	allow_group(0)
	play_note($EVENT_NOTE,$EVENT_VELOCITY,0,0)
	wait($EVENT_VELOCITY + $velo - $calc)

	disallow_group($ALL_GROUPS)
	allow_group(1)
	play_note($EVENT_NOTE,$EVENT_VELOCITY,0,0)
	wait($EVENT_VELOCITY + $velo - $calc)
	end while

end on

The bow speed i determined by the velocity of the pressed key.

I've only used two (awful) samples of a Violin, bow up and bow down. So please don't expect amazing quality. :D It's just about the idea. I've also didn't scripted for a while, so I'm pretty rusty on the KSP.
 

Attachments

  • patches.zip
    47.4 KB · Views: 10
Thanks Sasje, I will try to review these files in the next couple of days.

I can't speak for the original OP, but I think he was looking for fast alternate bowing, and not necessarily just arco. So it's possible it's bowed trem he's after, or fast staccato figures as well. It should work with either, correct?

Mr A
 
Thanks Sasje, I've tried your script but I think you misunderstood me

What I mean is


once note is played and held down...

I can trigger "bow up on same note" group or "bow down on same note" group by each assgined midi note like C0, D0.



So I can trigger "Bow up on same note" group and
"Bow down on same note" group with two finger of my left hand
as long as my right hand is pressing and playing the key


you know, violinist can bow up and down slowly on same note. I want to simulate that on keyboard.

again, Sorry for my lack of English skill

anyway I appreciate for your help!
 
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