Eternity Choir wisdom needed

[Adagio Learner]

I think I should be able to get better sounds from Eternity Choir than I am. The learning curve is steep for a novice and it offers tons of settings. But I’m a little lost. Would any users of Eternity Choir be able to share how you use the library, and what settings you prefer?

I am using the Latin song Gaudéte for practice. It is probably #1 on the Latin hit parade, usually heard at Christmas. I’m using the Expanded Eternity choir. I can’t seem to avoid the following: whispering, sibilants, poor transitions, and a lack of a unified sound. I also found the plug-in switches from legato to staccato phrasing for reasons I don't understand. I’m not trying to match the Eternity phrases to the Latin lyrics — that’s impossible because of its limited vocabulary — but I’m hoping to learn how to achieve better articulated phrases and blended voices. I appreciate any advice you can give to a beginner. I created a video so you can hear what I mean. Thanks.

Gaudéte with Eternity Choir

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[OPY]

I'm no expert, either! So take this with a grain of salt...

But looking at your video two things come to my mind:

1) While Eternity plugin window is open and playback is on, I can see staccato-articulations, when they perhaps should be legatos (without melisma, since melisma extends one syllable across two notes, if I understand correctly)?

2) Could using Dorico be affecting as to how the Eternity plugin behaves? Do you have expression maps in dorico affecting legato behavior?

A couple of details regarding word building: In the word builder, personally I would make the syllable "gau" in the word "gaudete" the following way: g+ah+oo(diphthong), (= so the oo-diphthong as extra). Also, I would build the syllable "tus" in the word "natus" as follows: t+oo+s.

 

[jbuhler]

First thing I’d do is work in a DAW rather than Dorico until you figure out the basics of the instrument. There’s too much you can’t easily control in the notation program especially if you are trying to track down changes from staccato to legato or vice versa as well as better controlling the syllables.

I would also start with the basic version, again to cut down variables.

 

[Adagio Learner]

1) While Eternity plugin window is open and playback is on, I can see staccato-articulations, when they perhaps should be legatos (without melisma, since melisma extends one syllable across two notes, if I understand correctly)?

Thank you very much for your helpful tips. What I have discovered in the last 24 hours is that (some) settings that appear on the Performance page of the Eternity Choir plugin need to be saved with each Phrase preset. For example, after I selected Sustain, and then saved over each of the five phrase presets in all four voices, I didn't experience any more switches between Sustain and Staccato.

2) Could using Dorico be affecting as to how the Eternity plugin behaves? Do you have expression maps in dorico affecting legato behavior?

I don't believe so. I have a bare-bones expression map with only the natural articulation. There are no articulations in the piece at all. The only thing that Dorico is sending are the dynamics (which I don't change much), and I'm using MIDI trigger regions to send key switches to the Phrase switcher in Eternity Choir. For an abundance of caution, I'm sending those key switches in the blank measures that I inserted before each verse.

A couple of details regarding word building: In the word builder, personally I would make the syllable "gau" in the word "gaudete" the following way: g+ah+oo(diphthong), (= so the oo-diphthong as extra). Also, I would build the syllable "tus" in the word "natus" as follows: t+oo+s.

Brilliant! Those suggestions really helped. I wish I knew of a reference source of Ecclesiastical Latin that would help with the phonetic spelling of Latin words in Eternity Choir.

First thing I’d do is work in a DAW rather than Dorico until you figure out the basics of the instrument.

You may be right, but so far it is the settings in Eternity Choir have been my biggest challenge. Another thing I've learned in the last 24 hours is the seven volume controls on the Phrase builder page are critical. The manual alludes to this, but gives almost no information on how to best make use of them:


I spent a few hours adding, removing, saving and deleting many different combinations of settings. I think I am getting closer in this attempt:
Gaudéte with Eternity Choir

I appreciate your time and thoughtful advice OPY and jbuhler. I wish someone at Audiobro would consider creating a video with a settings walkthrough masterclass. The Genesis videos that are linked in the Eternity manual just scratch the surface of how to combine and adjust settings into pleasing results. If anyone else using Eternity Choir is willing to share their settings, I'd be very appreciative.

 

[OPY]

You're welcome! Glad I could be of assistance.

Your second video sounds a lot better than the first one!

Further speculation: I don't know how long the minim's (or half notes), let alone the crotchet's (quarter notes) are assigned as midi in Dorico play mode, as you write the notation. But based on how I'm hearing them, they still come across as perhaps a bit too short and abrupt, perhaps?

The next thing I would try to do is to lengthen the duration of the legato midi notes in Dorico Play midi mode, almost to the point of overlap with the following notes (without affecting the notation).

I'm not sure how to achieve this in Dorico, but I do this kind of lengthening in my DAW (Cubase) almost always with choir legato parts.

Still, might be something worth to try (if at all possible), if you want to polish it a bit further?

 

[Adagio Learner]

Thanks once again! Dorico’a piano roll ingeniously allows one to change the playback duration independently of the notated duration. There are also global playback settings that allow fine adjustments of the percentage of the playback duration relative to the notation, for each note type and slurs, including setting any value more or less than 100%. The defaults seem quite reasonable but are something to play around with for sure.

I’m still hoping for advice on Eternity Choir settings because I feel this is a critical source of improving the sound. And I’m still putting it out there if there are any Eternity Choir owners who are willing to chime in with information or tutorials. I’m wondering if all the users are only using the library for background sounds of ooo’s and ah’s in large orchestral scores and don’t care about phrase building or the enunciation of syllables with consonants? I think Audiobro has missed an opportunity to supports its community. I looked at the manual for EastWest Hollywood Choirs (which I don’t own) and it has many helpful producer hints to achieve various objectives, with additional tips on its active forum. I’m beginning to wonder if I bought the wrong choir because of the lack of users and information on Eternity Choir.

 

[OPY]

Good to hear that Dorico has that functionality. I've been switching my workflow from pure DAW-work to first using Dorico, so this information comes in handy also for me!

Here's my first quick test with Eternity Expanded choir, a while back:

Audiobro Eternity Choir Library

Thanks for the comparison! I was considering doing this with EW Hollywood Choirs but I decided to save myself the headache. You're right. It's amazing how "human" you can make a fast and polyphonic piece of music sound with Eternity Choir. It had a few problems, too, however. In the midi you...

vi-control.net

It is what it is, but hey, that was my first try!

Coudn't agree more as to the scarcity on Audiobro Eternity tutorials online...

I looked at the manual for EastWest Hollywood Choirs (which I don’t own) and it has many helpful producer hints to achieve various objectives, with additional tips on its active forum

I' in the lucky position to have both libraries. Different beasts, but both are quite clever in word-building capacities.

 

[jbuhler]

You may be right, but so far it is the settings in Eternity Choir have been my biggest challenge. Another thing I've learned in the last 24 hours is the seven volume controls on the Phrase builder page are critical. The manual alludes to this, but gives almost no information on how to best make use of them:

I just think running it through a notation program, even one that has DAW-like capabilities like Dorico, is introducing new complexities that makes figuring out what's going on with the instrument harder. Good to hear that you are making progress!

My advice is to take a short passage and play around with the various controls, figure out what the various key switches do, try different settings, especially different syl length, but also behavior for sustain and staccato. Try the different vowel forms so you really have a sense of what they sound like, then play with the dipthongs and the different settings for that. Play with legato and melisma. Go into the ensemble and play around with various divisi options. You quickly see the versatility of the instrument but also why it does not lend itself well to tutorials. At the same time: yes, Audiobro should have more of them because much of the instrument remains obscure even after having read the manual and gone through all the Eternity and Genesis tutorials.