Dirk Ulrich leaves NI.

[kitekrazy]

Its not that it dies, its that what NI represents, what it does will die. When its a team focused on making cool products and innovative ideas its great for composers. As it gets bigger and HAS to make money to cover those overheads it becomes less about whats good for us composers and whats good for the shareholders.

So yes Kontakt and NI might not die completely..... but we already have unsolicited ads popping up in our full-version players... NI doesn't have to die per se for what it used to represent to us as composers dies. Kontakt could get more and more micro transaction heavy or 'watch an ad before you can use this patch' nonsense....never thought id see ads on my movie streaming accounts but now I have to pay another 5 quid just to keep the same service, it would be nieve to not see this greed swallowing up our industry. Money people will rinse every cent out of us then move on. Thats why we are seeing all the sales and repackaging of stuff already done, which will ironically make the fire burn faster. Like if you have SSO at $500 from Spitfire, you are covered. Now they have to convince that person to buy those same instruments again... its been this way for a while now. Its only going to get worse. Company price drops, they sell to money people who repackage, start a sale, make the issue worse, someone buys company, they repackage, start a sale.....so on and so forth. Welcome to capitalism run by short-sighted fools. Its almost like a bacteria that dies because it grows too fast and exhausts its food source before it can replenish it, literally starving itself to death from overly aggressive success.

But yeah anyway thats why I was saying that I hope Kontakt gets into good hands before NI gets too hollowed out. But a situation where the rights to Kontakt cannot be taken from people who are abusing/destroying the platform (unsolicited ads as the example)...in that scenario is it not as good as dead as a professional tool? Again it obviously wont physically go away, Giga studio still technically exists, but without active (useful) support and updates who is going to use it. Kontakt trapped in the wrong would be just as bad.

I mean more that it will die in practical terms.

-DJ

It happens in every industry. Too often stuffed shirts look at spreadsheets instead of the "sheet" they spread. Imagine if I told I was their pilot on a flight and my only experience is I've seen a plane take off and land. People who founded companies and left come to similar conclusions.

 

[holonology]

If you read around the web, you'll see an interesting pattern. There is a very similar message coming out of 2 completely different audiences.

If you listen to the synthheads, they'll say that NI was at its best when Reaktor ruled the roost and it was like a punk kid at the back of class, allowing them to make obtuse synths. Massive was a breakthrough too. But now, they say, NI isn’t what it was and they have reservations or have moved on. Then take a look here, and you'll see a similar message (although I’d say it’s less likely than in the synth communities) that the core vision of the company is not what it once was. You could say the same for Traktor & Maschine users to some extent too.

Reading between the lines, I think if you were around in the early days of NI, it's quite possible you feel like perhaps it isn't the same. Yet as a relative noob, I see it as a treasure trove. It's a rusty treasure trove, strung together with sellotape. But pretty much every other plugin maker I see (with a couple of notable exceptions) don't really compete in terms of sound quality. I also think the expectation for a company to be innovative in the way they were as a startup after 2 decades is historically less likely than more likely. When I think about the sheer amount of content I got when I picked up Komplete, and how much I use those sounds (a lot!) this idea that judging them on what the early company was like seems a little off base. They’re certainly not the only offenders as a company that once was a small startup and is now a conglomerate (the same could be said of AKAI for sure.)

Anywhoo, this article is and example of the excesses of internet echo chambers. It’s pretty common to bash NI today “because VC” regardless of the story. But this is completely 2+2=5 kinda stuff. It talks about how a former leader of one of the inherited brands was pushed into a non-executive advisory role, and then links that to the continued decline of the entire company. We're in proper clickbait mountain and molehill territory here. In business, it is rare for a company to agree to be sold in a merger without an understanding that there will be leadership changes. Whether it's Soundwide or NI calling the shots, Bx, iZotope and PA are now playing a supporting role to NI's future story. It's also not unusual for leaders who feel disgruntled to leave and publcially declare their distaste after a merger (I did hear some rumbles of discontent at iZotope). But it seems telling that he remains the largest shareholder in the business. That hardly says "good riddance" in my book.

What I will say is that when Soundwide was formed, for all its ills, they did actually communicate some ideas about what they were doing. There was a concept of a unified platform for NI, which I feel like they are backtracking on a bit. KK3 was more of the same, as was the S-Series. The way they’ve removed Maschine functionality from S-Series keyboards raises questions about whether that unified system is possible or if Maschine Mk4 will be a gentle iteration like S-Series.

Since that change to NI as the lead brand, we haven't really heard from NI about a roadmap or much else of substance, apart from some product teams posting more in the forums (which is welcome!) There was also one other post that suggested they would each retain their "distinct identitities" which sounds like it's a simple bundling of product. I would like to see them be a bit more upfront about what the future NI looks like, and how it intends to make the most of the relative advantages owning these brands, what will be merged, what will be lost. We will get a flavour of that when Komplete 15 launches, potentially with the much rumoured subscription option, but it would be nice to hear some thoughts on Maschine, the A-Series and more.

 

[AudioLoco]

Wasn't he in Metallica?

 

[Daniel James]

We agree on most of it Daniel. But I think this above is the assumption too far for me. They are a company and need to make money - 100%. But to infer they are in financial trouble just because they've marketed in different ways lately - I just don't see that.

And I'm good, ta!

Thats fair mate agreeing on most thing these days is a win!

To your point though do you think NI was purchased because it was growing or because it was declining and cheaper?

My impression was always that they needed a buyout, thats why the VC money people stepped in. You don't tend to do that if you are fucking smashing it right?

-DJ

 

[ennbr]

To your point though do you think NI was purchased because it was growing or because it was declining and cheaper?

Or option 3 the owners got out while the company still had value in preparation for retirement

 

[Daniel James]

Or option 3 the owners got out while the company still had value in preparation for retirement

Yeah for sure! but its still money people steering the ship now. We have enough examples across industries that when that happens things can get...lets say wobbly. And yeah, I'm mostly just putting the pieces we can see together and trying to form an opinion on it. Which as someone whom the outcome would impact, I feel its worth forming one.

I could be way off base I accept that. I guess my feeling is that when you look at companies being sold to VC money folks, and as the old heads are going out they say things like 'sinking ship' it does sort of pull your general feeling over to one potential possibility over another. I guess my gut is telling me I am seeing more evidence with these ads, sales, repackaging, rebranding, staff changes while shouting sinking ship shithousery, which to me points towards it being closer to what I am saying. I'm not seeing any smoke signals to suggest otherwise, and I am genuinely saying this as someone who really wants them to succeed as much as possible, their success is my success.

-DJ

 

[pixel]

I think that NI will survive, at least for the next 10 years. But since recently I moved to a 4k HiDPI screen I feel like Kontakt is already on its way to becoming the next Best Service Engine 2.
On Mac, it's still fine but on PC I feel like I'm working with broken software from the 90s, especially in Cubase. A mix of blurry and pixelated fonts that makes me feel nauseous. Blurry textures or a black box around the plugin (this is more likely to be an issue with Cubase actually). The same for Komplete Kontrol.
They caught up with VST3 after 10 years. Awesome.
Their only hope is that Apple will not change their CPUs ever again. Windows? If the rumours are true, then soon one of the next Windows versions may break compatibility for the first time ever. What then? Can they survive on the backs of those who will freeze their computers forever or for the next 10 years before NI catch up? Surely in the next 10 years, the next generation of musicians will prefer obsolete pixelated plugins over the new and shiny AI that can make professionally produced music with just one prompt

So, can they be sold to another company? Sure they can. But if they already struggle with the ancient code of Kontakt, they would need to be in the hands of very skilled programmers, with a lot of budget and willingness to modernize the code. I think that a young coding team working on this as a side project would have better chances than programmers with tied hands in a company where the manager (who came from eg. the car industry*) is dictating what, when and how they have to do.

* it happens with Amazon Game Studios. The founder has no clue about games and he burned about a billion $ on failed projects. I bet he fired himself for his failures, not the devs

Ps. I'm starting to have an impression that the new generation of CEOs, leaders, managers etc. in the highest positions, got there because they were born in high-class families and they got those positions thanks to mummy and daddy. Also, they were born in a 'stress-free environment' where nobody could say "no" to them.
So many companies fail now because their bosses don't understand the industry they work in.
Or they were successful in an industry X so they got a job in an irrelevant industry Y with the hope that their ability to read Excel sheets (through their assistants of course) would do the same magic. The only solution they know of how to save the company is to lay down hundreds of employees. Just look at what's happening to the video games industry.

<morning migraine rant over>

 

[Rossy]

I feel as the market becomes heavily saturated, reinvention can be the only way to keep your head above water. As most companies grow and start to offer higher quality products, investing and updating becomes a necessity and there lies the rub. I have been in upper management for a very long time and although not in this industry, if you supply a product, development is inevitable and there lies cost. People get used to the "new thing" quite quickly and if you don't feed the machine, it dies of starvation and as others have said here, the covid growth was a "supply by demand" scenario that I think most companies jumped on, as they should.

Now as sales decline, other avenues of revenue must be explored, to the distain of many, and advertising and subscription can provide a steadier stream of revenue, not that I'm thrilled about it but, I would rather that than watch them go under.

 

[Aymara]

On Mac, it's still fine ...

No, it's not, when there's still no 100% compatibility (NI Komplete, especially Kontakt 7) nearly 5 months after the release of macOS Sonoma in October 2023!

 

[pixel]

No, it's not, when there's still no 100% compatibility (NI Komplete, especially Kontakt 7) nearly 5 months after the release of macOS Sonoma in October 2023!

I have zero compatibility issues with Kontakt on Sonoma, but you're right. 5 months is still nothing for NI

 

[Pier]

I think that NI will survive, at least for the next 10 years. But since recently I moved to a 4k HiDPI screen I feel like Kontakt is already on its way to becoming the next Best Service Engine 2.

I've been complaining about hiDPI support on Windows for years. NI is one of the worst but there are plenty of audio dev companies lagging behind. I had tons of issues with Arturia and what about Steinberg and some of their 20 year old GUIs (eg: Retrologue, Padshop, etc).

But to be honest I do think NI is progressing on this front. Massive X and Guitar Rig have modern scalable GUIs. It seems like it's only a matter of time until this comes to Kontakt and the rest of their products. At least the ones they want to keep alive. RIP Reaktor.

 

[Aymara]

I have zero compatibility issues with Kontakt on Sonoma, but you're right. 5 months is still nothing for NI

I lately got an email from NI, that the newest Kontakt 7 update is fully Sonoma compatible. Two days later I got a second email, that it isn't fully compatible.

And yes, I remember, that they once needed over half a year to get compatible with the latest macOS release. Since then I usually upgrade macOS in summer to avoid issues.

So ... yes ... the money people took over :-( You also see that with the latest synth releases ... Analog Dreams, Ashlight, etc. ... all the same minimalistic concept. The days of good new Reaktor based synths like Razor seem to be over.

 

[pixel]

I've been complaining about hiDPI support on Windows for years. NI is one of the worst but there are plenty of audio dev companies lagging behind. I had tons of issues with Arturia and what about Steinberg and some of their 20 year old GUIs (eg: Retrologue, Padshop, etc).

But to be honest I do think NI is progressing on this front. Massive X and Guitar Rig have modern scalable GUIs. It seems like it's only a matter of time until this comes to Kontakt and the rest of their products. At least the ones they want to keep alive. RIP Reaktor.

I have only latest free plugins from Arturia installed so I'm not aware how bad it is with their big package.
With Cubase 13 I gave up all my hopes for the graphics side of it
Massive X is new and I think it was 4K compatible from the start. Their older synths unfortunately are not updated.
I know that Kontakt one day will catch up but its old code must be really hard to crack by current developers.

 

[pixel]

I lately got an email from NI, that the newest Kontakt 7 update is fully Sonoma compatible. Two days later I got a second email, that it isn't fully compatible.

And yes, I remember, that they once needed over half a year to get compatible with the latest macOS release. Since then I usually upgrade macOS in summer to avoid issues.

So ... yes ... the money people took over :-( You also see that with the latest synth releases ... Analog Dreams, Ashlight, etc. ... all the same minimalistic concept. The days of good new Reaktor based synths like Razor seem to be over.

Those new synth sample libraries are made for those who don't want to spend time on deep sound design. I call them sample libraries because those are practically romplers.
I'm pretty sure that synth plugins are niche right now and their sales are very low in comparison to "sample packs" etc.
Massive and Massive X are my only two synths used in 99% of times but I'm already looking at U-he as the future alternative (when Massive become incompatible with future computers).

 

[Aymara]

Massive and Massive X are my only two synths used in 99% of times but I'm already looking at U-he as the future alternative (when Massive become incompatible with future computers).

My current favorite is Arturia Pigments and I don't see it changing soon, because of it's versatility ... Version 5 rocks

 

[pefra]

We, the Oldies, are keeping them all alive by updating stuff we bought centuries ago. Kids (as in future producers) go for Serato over Traktor; Octatrack, SP-404MK2 and OP-1 over Maschine; Arturia, u-he and Xfer Serum for all the synth stuff, etc. blah blah.
I wonder who commits himself to Kontakt if he is starting his journey in 2024, especially when there are so many good (better?) alternatives available?
And I personally came to the conclusion that I have enough stuff. Nothing I will buy in the future will make my music better. So I stopped, nothing to do with NI, but it's enough! And I know a lot of people who think similar, and therin lies a problem for companies like NI...

 

[holonology]

I think this is an interesting comment.

On the one hand, you could argue that any of those early stage music companies who braved the new digital workstation era will fall away. That would go for Native Instruments, Arturia, XFER, Soundtoys, but also even Logic, Abelton and others etc... They are trapped on legacy tech and can't turn the ship around, so to speak.

On the other, you could argue that most new audioware is primarily iterating on the new ideas that came out of early NI and others. For example, Spitfire Audio's own player, following the breakaway from Kontakt is OK, but it does come with its own headaches, as too is MNTRA who are producing some interesting stuff. The latest poster child of synthesis is Minimal Audio (doubltess a fine company) is a wavetable synth that seems to combine the best of Xfer and Arturia's flagship synths, so is there anything especially new about this?

Music is kinda strange in that folks talk a lot about innovation and needing constat updates, but somehow dusty, old and crappy stuff can absolutely win out over something that is objectively and technically absolutely superior. Look at how folks still actively crave original MPCs for their simplicity, in spite of the upgrades applied to the current iterations. Maybe some software will be preserved like old hardware synths?

I would be really interested to do an exercise where NI lovers and not-lovers try to rebuild Komplete, but using other manufacturers. Would it be Output Arcade and Minimal Audio Current and done? It's an interesting one to think about.

 

[Aymara]

Maybe some software will be preserved like old hardware synths?

Old hardware synths don't need new drivers for a new OS versions

Regarding software those "classics" will "stay alive", which stay up to date to new OS's and new trends like Dolby Atmos.

And here NI is currently the big looser ... they still don't support their complete product lineup to the newest macOS ... and that 5 months after release !!! Only Avid is similar lame.

And iZotope Ozone is still only Stereo, while others already develop mastering solutions for Atmos.

Often the big companies become too sluggish to keep up with small innovative companies. Best example is Dreamtonics' Synthesizer V compared to Yamaha's Vocaloid ... Dreamtonics are already miles ahead and that with a very small dev team.

 

[kitekrazy]

We, the Oldies, are keeping them all alive by updating stuff we bought centuries ago. Kids (as in future producers) go for Serato over Traktor; Octatrack, SP-404MK2 and OP-1 over Maschine; Arturia, u-he and Xfer Serum for all the synth stuff, etc. blah blah.
I wonder who commits himself to Kontakt if he is starting his journey in 2024, especially when there are so many good (better?) alternatives available?
And I personally came to the conclusion that I have enough stuff. Nothing I will buy in the future will make my music better. So I stopped, nothing to do with NI, but it's enough! And I know a lot of people who think similar, and therin lies a problem for companies like NI...

More than you think. As for better alternatives, no there isn't. There's so many things people fail to see in Kontakt. I could understand that if people treat it as a rompler.

 

[thesteelydane]

OT trivia: That's pretty much the only racing car built in Austria, these days. 8-)

Is that a KTM? Being a motorcyclist, I cast lustful eyes at the KTM adventure bikes every time I get my Royal Enfield serviced (same dealership/mechanic)...

Sorry for being about as off-topic as can be, do carry on. I'm obviously following this with great interest, being a Kontakt dev...