Century Series VS EWHO VS BBCSO VS Chris Hein

[Jorf88]

Hm no purging could be quite a workflow issue, as well as having to open a million instances of the player... I did see something about BBCSO Core being "NKS Compatible" on the Spitfire page, does that mean it's compatible with Kontakt?

Thanks for sharing your experience! When you say you replace HB with Century Brass, you mean Hollywood Brass? I also am enjoying the timbre of the Century Brass more than the Hollywood Brass, part of the reason I started this whole thread TBH

Nucleus yeah, I don't quite like the sound and it doesn't have a very broad palette of articulations. As for epic percussion, I already have Damage 1, but who knows? Maybe I'll grab Majestica or something during BF for its percussion-- I have a feeling it won't be in the budget but hard to tell with 8dio :D

I try hard to never tell anyone not to buy anything, but I'll say that there's a dedicated forum post here for peoples' most regretted purchase, and my entry to that post was Majestica. If you can find something else to meet that percussion need, it would do you well.

Again, I don't own BBCSO, but I've heard a lot of great things around here for its use as a pretty comprehensive first library. Sure, you don't get individual control of every single section, but you're also not paying for that kind of control. You do get soloists for the most frequently used sections, though (horn, trumpet, some individual woodwinds).

Re: brass blares... the high end of century brass is not that good. When the brassy buzz comes in at the top of the register, it's an easily heard dynamic layer that's just being piled on top. It's way too obvious to me, and I don't care for it at all. I tried a number of times to eq + send the signal through compressors/secondary reverbs to try and glue it all together a little better, but I never had much luck getting it to sound great. Recording that "loud" stuff in a way that it reproduces well in a DAW is difficult. All purpose libraries that are capable of doing that are few in numbers.

If you're heavily considering EastWest libraries, I'd suggest buying a month of composer cloud to see if you actually like it. It's a rare opportunity to try some of these products before you buy them, and being able to try out multiple thousands of dollars worth of libraries for $20/month is money well spent. You'd learn first hand (and rather quickly) if there was some feature of their libraries that really drove you nuts, or if you could "fix" the sound to come out like you want it (in terms of instrument timbre, room sound etc).

 

[WindcryMusic]

BBC doesn't have a proper Purge function and you have to load an instance for every articulation.

I agree about the missing Purge functionality (I wish I had that, too), but I’m not sure what you mean when you say you “have to load an instance (of BBCSO) for every articulation”. My template uses a single BBCSO instance for each section, with all articulations keyswitched, without any problems. Or maybe you just meant that one would have to do this to avoid loading unneeded articulations into memory? Just want to make sure the OP is clear on what is or isn’t possible with BBCSO.

 

[peterharket]

Here is James Bond inspired piece I wrote with Century Brass coming in towards the end - might help you decide:

 

[Nashi_VI]

Thanks for sharing your experience! When you say you replace HB with Century Brass, you mean Hollywood Brass? I also am enjoying the timbre of the Century Brass more than the Hollywood Brass, part of the reason I started this whole thread TBH

Also to add a bit to my statement, so that you don't get the wrong impression...i have replaced HB with Century brass....kinda...for the most part, but i told you in my original message that i did it in a modular way buying a la carte what i needed as i needed it, so , for example...i don't even have the Horns ensemble from Century, but i do have the Century solo horn (now that i think about it get, if you haven't already, the Majestic Horn from the OT site, a bargain), so is not like i replaced 1 for 1 HB with Century, since for bombastic stuff i also use the very great and, surpisingly almost comprehensive brass section of Ark 1 and a couple of patches from JXL Brass (the horns ensemble for example).

 

[Vladinemir]

8Dio
If you want fast legatos, you will need something other with CS. Maybe Anthology could be better for that. You can get Adagio 1.6 for couple of bucks if you buy Anthology (by contacting support). It has more options, but it's older and probably fiddlier. No violins 2 here though. If Anthology Strings and Agitato bundle will be cheap during BF, you can use custom patches for them by Sarah Mancuso called Adachi. CS is not bread and butter lib. Its signature imo are the arcs and raw sound if you need that. Realistic but can be limiting too. You can grab it if they offer good price during BF.
People generally like CB, but it's pretty bright.
EW
I've read that EW Strings do fast legato passages well, I think Hollywood, so you are covered there too. EW patches may be a little bit oddly organized so check the cloud. The price for the orchestra sounds pretty good though.
Other Options
Depending on the situation, you can take another route and invest in better libs from the start. For example, CSS or even Cinematic Strings 2 which is older but cheaper. Pople usually mention they are easy to use. Well, this might apply more to other sections since strings are probably the easiest to layer together.

 

[Casiquire]

Thanks for pointing this out.
I listened to a couple tracks, and you can instantly hear the midi-ness of the CH instruments. The reasons you cite in favour of CH (mono, centered, bone-dry recordings, velocity controlled dynamics) are actually the same reasons these libraries will always sound fake to me. CH libraries sacrifice realistic expressiveness for greater control and playability. This is a the trade-off between samples and (partial) modelling techniques.

If it sounds good to you & your clients, that's great! But I suspect OP is looking for a more realistic sound, given their interest in EWHO, BBC, Century, etc.

But then again there are examples that absolutely nobody would assume were midi



I also disagree with the notion that centered dry recordings make things sound fake because plenty of music is recorded that way, and the library isn't velocity-dynamics-only, it gives the user the choice. The libraries are much better than they get credit for sometimes

I will say though, the workflow isn't for everyone and there ARE disadvantages to the way they chose to record them. I just don't necessarily think those advantages undercut realism. They just mean a different way of working which doesn't mesh well with everyone

 

[Nashi_VI]

But then again there are examples that absolutely nobody would assume were midi



I also disagree with the notion that centered dry recordings make things sound fake because plenty of music is recorded that way, and the library isn't velocity-dynamics-only, it gives the user the choice. The libraries are much better than they get credit for sometimes

I will say though, the workflow isn't for everyone and there ARE disadvantages to the way they chose to record them. I just don't necessarily think those advantages undercut realism. They just mean a different way of working which doesn't mesh well with everyone

Yeah, i agree with @Snarf on the sample modelling (partial or total) tradeoff in sound....but i also agree with you partially, because, as i said in my message in this thread about the CH stuff...their solo Celli are the only exception to that rule...at least that is what my ears tells me.

 

[WhiteNoiz]

I agree about the missing Purge functionality (I wish I had that, too), but I’m not sure what you mean when you say you “have to load an instance (of BBCSO) for every articulation”. My template uses a single BBCSO instance for each section, with all articulations keyswitched, without any problems. Or maybe you just meant that one would have to do this to avoid loading unneeded articulations into memory? Just want to make sure the OP is clear on what is or isn’t possible with BBCSO.

I mean if you want to change them with MIDI channels.

I did see something about BBCSO Core being "NKS Compatible" on the Spitfire page, does that mean it's compatible with Kontakt?

No, just the control surfaces.

 

[PebbleStream]

Also to add abit to my statement, so that you don't get the wrong impression...i have replaced HB with Century brass....kinda...for the most part, but i told you in my original message that i did it in a modular way buying a la carte what i needed as i needed it, so , for example...i don't even have the Horns ensemble from Century, but i do have the Century solo horn (now that i think about it get, if you haven't already, the Majestic Horn from the OT side, a bargain), so is not like i replaced 1 for 1 HB with Century, since for bombastic stuff i also use the very great and, surpisingly almost comprehensive brass section of Ark 1 and a couple of patches from JXL Brass (the horns ensemble for example).

8Dio
If you want fast legatos, you will need something other with CS. Maybe Anthology could be better for that. You can get Adagio 1.6 for couple of bucks if you buy Anthology (by contacting support). It has more options, but it's older and probably fiddlier. No violins 2 here though. If Anthology Strings and Agitato bundle will be cheap during BF, you can use custom patches for them by Sarah Mancuso called Adachi. CS is not bread and butter lib. Its signature imo are the arcs and raw sound if you need that. Realistic but can be limiting too. You can grab it if they offer good price during BF.
People generally like CB, but it's pretty bright.
EW
I've read that EW Strings do fast legato passages well, I think Hollywood, so you are covered there too. EW patches may be a little bit oddly organized so check the cloud. The price for the orchestra sounds pretty good though.
Other Options
Depending on the situation, you can take another route and invest in better libs from the start. For example, CSS or even Cinematic Strings 2 which is older but cheaper. Pople usually mention they are easy to use. Well, this might apply more to other sections since strings are probably the easiest to layer together.

Thanks for sharing your experiences! Ark brass unfortunately is quite expensive and so is JXL brass so I probably won't be grabbing those, as for CSS thanks for the suggestion but price is too high for me and TBH I actually don't like the tone very much I know, I know, that's heresy around these parts

I mean if you want to change them with MIDI channels.


No, just the control surfaces.

Ahhh gotcha, thanks!

 

[river angler]

Regarding orchestral percussion I strongly recommend CineSamples CinePerc. A vast collection of supremely sampled percussive and melodic percussive instruments. Extremely versatile as well because you can dial out the American style soundstage ambient mix to add your own as you like. I'm sue it will be on hefty discount shortly!

 

[WhiteNoiz]

If you decide to mix n' match and as far as percussion is concerned, Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion is also an all-rounder contender... Especially if you catch a 50-75% sale. On the affordable side, at least...

 

[EanS]

I've noticed budget is relevant, where it's my situation too, I have all but Chris Hein.

Honestly for the budget/use/resources OPUS provides, even if you splurge on the perpetual license which is near $340 (use code GROUP at jrrshop) And you'll have

All Sections: Strings, Brass, Winds, Percussion
Solo Violin
Solo Cello
Harp

Plus the Orchestrator itself that's very useful Ostinatos, Scale Runs, a bunch of Articulations to learn from, Trombone has some jazz ones. And the same rooms, so matching space is easier.

On 8Dio there aren't Century Woodwinds, only Ostinatos with useful shorts. So that's a limitation.

But be prepared for file sizes. Strings only are 400 Gigas, Century Strings + Sordino = 240 Gigas.

So start Composer Cloud for a month or two and have way more instruments available and see if you dig it.

 

[José Herring]

Hi again all!
So, I've been trying to cobble together my first (relatively cheap) virtual orchestra, have been listening to demos for about the past half year or so, but BF is looming ahead and I am having a difficult time choosing after discovering some appealing options I hadn't thought of before...

For context: I have 32GB RAM (single channel, may become 64GB dual-channel before the holiday season ends) and a 1TB SATA SSD for samples, along with a Ryzen 3 3100 as my CPU (3.6GHz, 4 cores 8 threads). I'm trying to stay around the $300 range for my libraries (so ~$100 per section not counting percussion), and going for a more modern sound, but certainly have nothing against a more "20th century" style as well, really I'd like to be able to mockup a broad range of styles as I learn. Anyways... See, I was pretty set on EWHO, but recently have been hearing as many demos for Century Brass as I can (Guy Michelmore's is fantastic I think) and actually like those quite a bit-- possibly even better... problem is, if I went ahead and bought Century Brass, well, I'd have covered one of my bases but not the other two!

Now I noticed also 8dio's Century Strings, and it has plenty of articulations etc, however, something about their tone seems strange... like, the timbre is great (maybe even better than EWHO's to my ear, couldn't say for sure yet), but it almost sounds like it was EQ'ed badly, [EDIT: only sometimes though for some reason? The example I posted is one of these cases. Here's one where it seems to, well sound mostly fine: It sounds like it could also just be an issue with the what-do-ya-call-it, stereo data? Like there's too much signal dead-center-- an issue which I could probably solve in mixing of course...] an example here: Otherwise though it also sounds excellent. However even if I did go ahead and grab it during the (fingers crossed) mighty BF sale coming up, that leaves me short a woodwinds section...

Which is when I was reminded of BBCSO. Strings, woodwinds, brass (too weak for me, I need my blares! ) that could be supplemented by Century Brass, a percussion section, and just about all the articulations I think a learner like myself could want in all of those sections. However, knowing the brass' limited dynamic range, I'm a little concerned particularly for the strings-- they seem like the opposite of the Century Strings, they have a nice tone but not quite that edge that Century Strings have (perhaps because of the larger section size?), that and I don't think I've heard fortissimo strings in the demos I've heard so far (or at least it doesn't sound like it-- maybe just because they don't have that "raw" sound that Century has). The woodwinds I can't say much about, they sound quite good to my (relatively untrained) ear.

I suppose that brings up the last question-- I don't know if Chris Hein does sales or not on his products but I've also heard great things about them-- I've started listening to demos of the "Strings Compact" and they sound fine so far, plus there are quite a few solo instruments included. That, and he also has a woodwinds library, which I admittedly have not heard yet. (The brass, I didn't like so much).

Anyways, I feel like I've rambled quite a bit here, and I suppose it's time to actually ask you fine folks some questions-- would anybody be able to share their experiences with these libraries, their pros and cons unique to them, how they compare to each other, their workflow? Is there something not usually mentioned that should be known before purchasing any of these (for example, I've heard BBCSO has performance issues)? Should I just stick with my original plan of buying EWHO? Many thanks to all!

PS: I've checked out other companies as well besides these-- VSL, Audio Imperia, and probably others but for various reasons have decided (probably, 95% sure) not to go with them. Still, if you have any recommendations my ears are open! Thanks again!

I have EWHO, Century Brass and BBCSO Core. Each library has their plus points and minuses.

EWHO Opus edition, always turns out to be my main library no matter what else I have and I've amassed a lot. It has a wealth of articulations, a good sound and is fairly playable library that just keeps getting better. Given your resources, All of the library will just fit on your terabyte drive. Also, you won't be able to keep a full template loaded up in ram. If you have a full orchestration going it will destroy your Ryzen 3 chip. It's fairly resource hungry.

Also, the middle dynamics in the brass can be a bit of a problem sometimes. The loud layer still doesn't blend as well as it should and takes up the space of the middle layers so you can hear it kicking in way too much to my liking.

If you go BBCSO it is good. The lack of "blare in the brass" is actually not very true. Listen to Andy Blaney's demo. But the lack of dynamic layers does become a bit of an issue but then also it makes the tone of the library really great. It doesn't have too many crossfades and filtering between dynamic layers and makes it so that you retain a lot of the original sound of the instruments. It's my best sounding library and I keep threating to upgrade to Pro but I haven't done it yet. It's the most "traditional" sounding library I have. BBCSO core mix is good and blended with other libraries it makes up for the lack of mic positions but if you're using it all on it's own then the lack of mic positions will be a problem.

Century Brass. I rather like it. Took some time. The tone of the brass by itself is just okay but then it blends actually really well. It sits in an orchestra with ease. It was not recorded in situ though so when you go off of the "mix" setting and start making your own mic mix you'll have to do some panning to place it in an orchestra. Or you can pan it wherever you want. That's what's cool about it. It is pretty hard to program. 8dio hasn't even bothered to put the articulations in for you. You have to set up your own keyswitches if you want to use them. Rather annoying. Or maybe I've missed some presets. Don't know but seems like I'm still trying to figure out what order to use keyswitches and usually just end up loading the articulations I need. For that reason it's usually my last choice for Brass but it's a good choice. It's one of only libraries that can do fast stacc lines. It can sound rather natural. It can be a PIA to work with but it ends up being the right thing to use more than not.

 

[Trash Panda]

Century Brass. I rather like it. Took some time. The tone of the brass by itself is just okay but then it blends actually really well. It sits in an orchestra with ease. It was not recorded in situ though so when you go off of the "mix" setting and start making your own mic mix you'll have to do some panning to place it in an orchestra. Or you can pan it wherever you want. That's what's cool about it. It is pretty hard to program. 8dio hasn't even bothered to put the articulations in for you. You have to set up your own keyswitches if you want to use them. Rather annoying. Or maybe I've missed some presets. Don't know but seems like I'm still trying to figure out what order to use keyswitches and usually just end up loading the articulations I need. For that reason it's usually my last choice for Brass but it's a good choice. It's one of only libraries that can do fast stacc lines. It can sound rather natural. It can be a PIA to work with but it ends up being the right thing to use more than not.

Easiest thing to do if you have Expression Maps/Sound Variations/etc. is to load all the individual patches in the single patch folder to their own channel in a Kontakt multi and assign your articulations by MIDI Channel.

 

[José Herring]

Easiest thing to do if you have Expression Maps/Sound Variations/etc. is to load all the individual patches in the single patch folder to their own channel in a Kontakt multi and assign your articulations by MIDI Channel.

Sounds great will give that a try.

 

[Snarf]

Easiest thing to do if you have Expression Maps/Sound Variations/etc. is to load all the individual patches in the single patch folder to their own channel in a Kontakt multi and assign your articulations by MIDI Channel.

Bonus: your arcs will actually timestretch and play polyphonically.