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Can the Updated SSO Replace HOOPUS For Me?

Draco Solis

Draco Solis

Caffeine Addicted Derp
Looking to get some input from people who may have been able to mess around with the new SSO since its re-release. With its updated price, the library looks much more promising to me as something I can potentially save for. And since getting HOOPUS a couple years ago, I've found it increasingly difficult to deal with, enough for me to consider switching over.

Some issues I have with it:

- Articulations are all at very different volumes, especially on the strings. While I can go in and manually fix that, it does take time and often as soon as I feel I have things properly set, later it all sounds wrong still.
- Volumes between velocity layers can be very jarring, with a slight lowering of velocity being able to bring a short sample from decently loud to nearly inaudible. Especially on brass I've had this issue, and the brass in general seems to like going loud a bit too quickly for my taste.
- Woodwinds aren't great. They're alright, but I generally don't feel very encouraged to use them.
- While I don't mind a library being somewhat dry (studio-dry, if you will), HOOPUS feels almost too dry for my taste.
- Percussion is really hit-or-miss. The untuned percussion is fine, but most of the tuned percussion has a lot of high-end noise buildup that's hard to filter away without cutting a lot of treble from the instrument. This left many of them near unusable when trying to use them in a more exposed setting. Timpani are also really quiet and pretty weak-sounding without the close mics, and sometimes not even that helps enough.
- Even with 32GB RAM on a PCIe and purging, trying to use a Close/Main/Surround mix will cause the samples to continuously drop out during playback.

Probably not the biggest deals for everyone, but at least for me these issues keep building up and make the library difficult for me to work with.

I feel at least some of these issues SSO would be an improvement by nature (bigger room, smaller disk space, etc). But would SSO be an improvement in the rest as well, or would it just be same crap, different package? Or just trading some issues for other really big ones?

I'll also admit, I have looked into the Cinematic Studio series as a potential alternative as well, as it does sound really nice and seems to have a sort of consistency I'd really appreciate. But that is well outside my budget right now, and given they seem to refuse any sales aside from Black Friday because of them being "very affordable", I don't expect this to change anytime soon.
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Every library has its upsides and downsides..! If you like how SSO sounds - surely go for it because it's different flavor and Hoopus + reverb won't get you That sound (though can be 90% close of course). I only used SSO Pro ready mixes mics so for me I didn't have to use any volume balancing at all (though you need to love choices they made for it like all Solo Woodwinds sounding louder than A2 and so on). In new SSO there are only CTAO mics so I don't how it's balanced of uf the box. For me SSO has a beautiful sound, also there are many other libraries SA recorded at Air so beware your wallet lol (SCS are awesome btw). But I also love Hoopus, its just completely other sound.
 
Draco Solis said:
Looking to get some input from people who may have been able to mess around with the new SSO since its re-release. With its updated price, the library looks much more promising to me as something I can potentially save for. And since getting HOOPUS a couple years ago, I've found it increasingly difficult to deal with, enough for me to consider switching over.

Some issues I have with it:

- Articulations are all at very different volumes, especially on the strings. While I can go in and manually fix that, it does take time and often as soon as I feel I have things properly set, later it all sounds wrong still.
- Volumes between velocity layers can be very jarring, with a slight lowering of velocity being able to bring a short sample from decently loud to nearly inaudible. Especially on brass I've had this issue, and the brass in general seems to like going loud a bit too quickly for my taste.
- Woodwinds aren't great. They're alright, but I generally don't feel very encouraged to use them.
- While I don't mind a library being somewhat dry (studio-dry, if you will), HOOPUS feels almost too dry for my taste.
- Percussion is really hit-or-miss. The untuned percussion is fine, but most of the tuned percussion has a lot of high-end noise buildup that's hard to filter away without cutting a lot of treble from the instrument. This left many of them near unusable when trying to use them in a more exposed setting. Timpani are also really quiet and pretty weak-sounding without the close mics, and sometimes not even that helps enough.
- Even with 32GB RAM on a PCIe and purging, trying to use a Close/Main/Surround mix will cause the samples to continuously drop out during playback.

Probably not the biggest deals for everyone, but at least for me these issues keep building up and make the library difficult for me to work with.

I feel at least some of these issues SSO would be an improvement by nature (bigger room, smaller disk space, etc). But would SSO be an improvement in the rest as well, or would it just be same crap, different package? Or just trading some issues for other really big ones?

I'll also admit, I have looked into the Cinematic Studio series as a potential alternative as well, as it does sound really nice and seems to have a sort of consistency I'd really appreciate. But that is well outside my budget right now, and given they seem to refuse any sales aside from Black Friday because of them being "very affordable", I don't expect this to change anytime soon.
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HOOPUS is probably now the most consistent and balanced library I have. All the problems you describe sample wise are the same for every library. HOOPUS is also far from dry. It is pretty medium. Only really wet libraries are Spitfire and OT.

A lot of the problems you are having are just the problem with samples in general. One of the best tutorials I have see for getting over those problems was done by @Jdiggity1 . I think he was using HOOPUs. Search it out. Learned a lot myself.

So it is what kind of sound you are after. If it is a more studio orchestra sound then HOOPUS, Synchron, Cinematic Studio Series and Audio Imperia. If you want that HZ media venture sound then Spitfire and OT. Both work in film.

I try to get as many libraries as possible so I have a choice. :)
 
The one thing I will say in SSO favour is that the workflow seems quicker and easier (for me at least). I like HOOPUS but it eats a lot more memory and seems significantly slower to use in terms of the load times. That alone slows me down rather significantly. In terms of tone - they are both very different, some instruments work better than others in each library -so depending on what I'm trying to achieve - I'm glad I have both of these as options.
 
Petrucci said:
Every library has its upsides and downsides..!
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That much I'm aware of, and what I'm trying to keep in mind. Hence me asking a bit before I decide to go all-in on going through with it.

I feel I should clarify in hindsight as well, I'm not really hating on HOOPUS or claiming that it's bad, although it might seem like it with my complaints. There's plenty that I love with HOOPUS in spite of its flaws, and I can see why many others love it. Just that it slowly becomes more and more apparent that I'm really not gelling with it as much as I'd hoped I would, if that makes sense.
 
Satorious said:
The one thing I will say in SSO favour is that the workflow seems quicker and easier (for me at least). I like HOOPUS but it eats a lot more memory and seems significantly slower to use in terms of the load times. That alone slows me down rather significantly. In terms of tone - they are both very different, some instruments work better than others in each library -so depending on what I'm trying to achieve - I'm glad I have both of these as options.
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Yes. I haven’t yet used the new version of SSO beyond just some very cursory noodling, but one thing SF libraries always have in their favor compared to every other developer’s libraries I’ve used is that they are quite straightforward to program. While SSO has a lot of inconsistencies across the instruments, they aren’t especially fussy and you quickly learn what they can do effectively and what they can’t. I haven’t used HOOPUS but from my experience with other East West products and from watching various walkthroughs and demos of HOOPUS it seems to me that HOOPUS is on the fussy side, which likely means it does some, maybe even many things better than SSO but takes much longer to get there.

Of course SSO also has the sound of Air which to me is one of its biggest selling points, and not because it makes the sound cinematic but more because I find it an excellent sound for sampled acoustic instruments in general. (For me, only Teldex comes close to Air as a venue for a sampled orchestra.)
 
jbuhler said:
Yes. I haven’t yet used the new version of SSO beyond just some very cursory noodling, but one thing SF libraries always have in their favor compared to every other developer’s libraries I’ve used is that they are quite straightforward to program. While SSO has a lot of inconsistencies across the instruments, they aren’t especially fussy and you quickly learn what they can do effectively and what they can’t. I haven’t used HOOPUS but from my experience with other East West products and from watching various walkthroughs and demos of HOOPUS it seems to me that HOOPUS is on the fussy side, which likely means it does some, maybe even many things better than SSO but takes much longer to get there.

Of course SSO also has the sound of Air which to me is one of its biggest selling points, and not because it makes the sound cinematic but more because I find it an excellent sound for sampled acoustic instruments in general. (For me, only Teldex comes close to Air as a venue for a sampled orchestra.)
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If so, that does make it more convincing for me to switch over. Admittedly I as a hobbyist don't have the patience and brainpower to fiddle around with things for too long to make it work for me. So the easier it is to use, the better. :2thumbs:
 
I've been using HOOPUS (and it's Hollywood predecessors) since release, and had SF Symphonic Strings on my wishlist for years....and finally caved and bought it a few years ago. I cannot speak for the rest of the orchestra, or the latest release, but it was a huge disappointment. It does sound absolutely wonderful and lush, but felt it was a step backwards compared to HOOPUS; it's clunky, inconsistent, and synthetic sounding unless you're going to get deep with your programming. And...the HOOPUS legatos are still one of the best in the industry IMO. This my own experience of course, you may love it.
 
Yeah I definitely wouldn't consider SSO much of an improvement over HOOPUS on point 1 and 2; you'll still be fiddling with the midi a lot. But then again these are pretty common problems in sample libraries.

The room sound is much wetter, though. This can be a big 'improvement' over HOOPUS if you don't want to fiddle so much with reverb setups.
 
Jeremy Spencer said:
I've been using HOOPUS (and it's Hollywood predecessors) since release, and had SF Symphonic Strings on my wishlist for years....and finally caved and bought it a few years ago. I cannot speak for the rest of the orchestra, or the latest release, but it was a huge disappointment. It does sound absolutely wonderful and lush, but felt it was a step backwards compared to HOOPUS; it's clunky, inconsistent, and synthetic sounding unless you're going to get deep with your programming. And...the HOOPUS legatos are still one of the best in the industry IMO. This my own experience of course, you may love it.
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I don't find SSS fussy to program, but I do find them hard to make sound good. (A very different problem.) It's not my main string section (SCS is). Others though very much like SSS (though many find it doesn't have crisp shorts). My own complaints have more to do with tone, which I find very washy. Others call it silky. Mileage very much varies.

I imagine that HOOPUS feels deeper, but that's also generally means it's fussier to program. That's how I feel about Berlin Strings. They sound great once I get them where I want, but it takes too long to get them there. In any case, you've been using HOOPUS for a long time so it doesn't surprise me that you'd find that SSS is like taking a step (or more) back.

I will say that both the winds and the brass are better on the whole. SCS is as well. Many complain about the SSB's fortissimo, but I've never had an issue with it (I don't write trailer music). The biggest issue across all the libraries of SSO are the inconsistencies, and the inconsistencies, though maddening, are easily learned. But I don't find that I have to spend much time fiddling with the midi. I mean, you can't just let things be, but you also don't have to redo the midi a dozen times, like I feel I sometimes have to do with a library like Berlin Strings.
 
Jeremy Spencer said:
I've been using HOOPUS (and it's Hollywood predecessors) since release, and had SF Symphonic Strings on my wishlist for years....and finally caved and bought it a few years ago. I cannot speak for the rest of the orchestra, or the latest release, but it was a huge disappointment. It does sound absolutely wonderful and lush, but felt it was a step backwards compared to HOOPUS; it's clunky, inconsistent, and synthetic sounding unless you're going to get deep with your programming. And...the HOOPUS legatos are still one of the best in the industry IMO. This my own experience of course, you may love it.
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My experience has been similar to yours. As a long time Hollywood orchestra diamond user, I always seem to get more realistic (less synthy) string performances out of East West compared to SSO. However, I really hated EW winds, whereas I really love the winds in SSO. I never upgraded to HOOPUS as a result and mostly stopped using it. I still question that decision.
 
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While I have plenty of ambient libraries that I like - CineSamples, ProjectSAM - overall I have no fear of using dry and they're often easier to work with in practice. LASS and HOOPUS are both great in this regard - they have all the ER baked in and just require a tail. I often wonder why those - like the OP - seem to struggle so much with them. I'm a sinple soul - it's just one aux send to a decent reverb. Done.

This feels like a grass-is-greener thread. As others have pointed out, every library has its flaws. Personally, rather than try and replace HOOPUS like for like but with a wetter library, I'd look at libraries that offer something different, such as section sizes or instrumentation.
 
Guy Rowland said:
I often wonder why those - like the OP - seem to struggle so much with them. I'm a sinple soul - it's just one aux send to a decent reverb. Done.
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Yeah, I basically already do this. Doesn't change...basically every other point I've made on it.

I'm not sure why it seems to come across to some that the dryness is my only issue with HOOPUS and not many of the other things. I'd actually say workflow is one of the bigger killers of it for me as opposed to its dryness.

But in any case, what I gather from replies so far is that SSO doesn't offer overly much different aside from its own sound and, to some degree, an easier workflow. So right now it's basically deciding between grabbing SSO mostly for its sound (which, to be fair, I would've picked SSO over HOOPUS had it not cost 1.4k back then), or waiting until I'm able to grab the CS series for its own workflow and consistency (which still sounds pretty nice, but would take a long while to get there).

However, I don't expect that question to be answerable by anyone except myself. Not like I'm in any rush, though.

In any case, thank you all for your feedback on this!
 
Draco Solis said:
Yeah, I basically already do this. Doesn't change...basically every other point I've made on it.

I'm not sure why it seems to come across to some that the dryness is my only issue with HOOPUS and not many of the other things. I'd actually say workflow is one of the bigger killers of it for me as opposed to its dryness.

But in any case, what I gather from replies so far is that SSO doesn't offer overly much different aside from its own sound and, to some degree, an easier workflow. So right now it's basically deciding between grabbing SSO mostly for its sound (which, to be fair, I would've picked SSO over HOOPUS had it not cost 1.4k back then), or waiting until I'm able to grab the CS series for its own workflow and consistency (which still sounds pretty nice, but would take a long while to get there).

However, I don't expect that question to be answerable by anyone except myself. Not like I'm in any rush, though.

In any case, thank you all for your feedback on this!
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I don't have CS series but I know it's very well regarded series! Still, I would choose SSO as it's on another end of sound spectrum with long lush ambiance while CS is closer to HOOPUS imo.
 
Grilled Cheese said:
I hate the process of programming when it comes to composing with samples. Takes all the fun out of it.
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You can learn to play and react to Sound in realtime so it becomes more playful. That's the attraction of rock bands, the spontaneity and unpredictability of the performance. I believe we can do that even in out solitary studios...
 
Petrucci said:
I don't have CS series but I know it's very well regarded series! Still, I would choose SSO as it's on another end of sound spectrum with long lush ambiance while CS is closer to HOOPUS imo.
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I agree that SSO is probably less of a side grade when it comes to the sound than CS.

I have the CS series and recently picked up SSO (new fanboy alert) and I find I'm starting to reach for SSO more already, even though CS always sound amazing.

SSO is "fire up and off you go", while CS at first glance looks simple but is very fiddly (which some people work around with Kontakt scripts and various custom workflows). The brass in SSO sounds great but might need some support from another library in some cases. HOOPUS could cover that.
 
vibrationisreality said:
I hate the word programming when it comes to composing with samples. Takes all the life and joy out of it...
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I prefer the word 'animate'. I'm animating the MIDI to make the music come to life. Idk. Just me I suppose... Helps me enjoy the process!

To OP: I have both HOOPUS and SSO and the inconsistency issues you mentioned are, imho, about the same. However, I much prefer SSO because of it's beautiful sound and lush tone. It really just boils down to preference.
 
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