Blown away by Berlin Strings (Kontakt-version)

[Petrucci]

i really think OT missed a trick with the Sine mics balance - they should offer a default mix (or even a few!), where the mics (or certain selected ones) have been balanced by someone who knows their stuff, so us mere mortals can have a great mix out the box if they want. they did with monolith and its superb!

Yeah, that would be very cool, I love SA ready mixed mics for that or VSL's Mixpresets)

 

[jbuhler]

Since I'm still alarmingly clueless and still figuring all this out, what's one of the big factors that makes you not want to use BS in a one-art-per-track workflow?

One track per instrument. It maybe works fine with a one articulation per track workflow.

Mostly you have to use more than one midi channel and that makes it hard to get the CCs to work correctly in Logic. There are workarounds of sorts, but they all create frictions. There are other things that makes Berlin Strings fussy to program, but that’s the big one for me.

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

Kontakt does not have the updated legatos, but in Kontakt's defense, you can go under the hood and adjust them. I used to use them with the Pixelpoet trick sometimes. They also have great-sounding legato-only patches which were worth using even as separate patches, because the legato in those patches were top-notch. To my knowledge, the legato in those patches is NOT the same as the legato in the multi-patches, and it could be confirmation bias but I could swear they did sound significantly better. Can't remember the user who pointed that out to be but I don't believe I properly thanked them for it.

I'm glad you're enjoying it! Don't we love the feeling of "this is what I was hoping for" followed by "and it does all these other things too?!"

Thank you!

 

[Paul@Sydney]

This library is just super inspiring.

More or less randomly I ended up on "Violas Shorts", a multi with Staccato and some other articulations.

Then I started playing and voila (not Viola!): Once again inspiration came out of the blue - simply because of the sheer quality of the samples.

This thing sounds optimistic to me; it made me think of a kid starting in school or an adult starting their own business:
View attachment Berlin Strings hvor meget fylder det i RAM - hbj3-01.mp3

This thing sounds "something else" to me, not sure what. But for sure neither positive or optimistic:
View attachment Berlin Strings hvor meget fylder det i RAM - hbj3-02.mp3

(Yes, I have the most basic of keyboard skills - I know! )

I'm starting to realize how much it matters how hard or soft you play the keys. The first example above, it should probaby have been played with more confidence to give the listener the right "Here I come"-feeling.

Now I'm also understanding a little better why people talk about "what the keybed feels like" on a keyboard - an expression I often see used.

Oh well, babbling again! I can't help it

This library, Berlin Strings...if I was a musician and if I could play the piano and knew about music theory so I knew what I was doing and thus could compose stuff...I'm thinking Berlin Strings must be a fantastic tool to have, what a resource to draw from. And then it's only 1 part out of 4 of the entire Berlin-series! It blows my mind to think what people "who know" must be able to do with it.

I dunno, sounds synthy to me. /s

Glad your new toys are inspiring you!

 

[Yashiro_Ryu]

BS in a one-art-per-track workflow?

The default multi capsule is quite limited [unless you tinker it]. The Single Articulations are where it shines. It has tons of them, by that I mean almost 2-3 times of what regular libs offer.

 

[Gensaii]

It's very fussy to program, and not especially conducive to a one track per instrument workflows in either Kontakt or Sine.

My biggest pet peeve with the library. Berlin Strings has articulations that have articulations, which is beyond cool. So I can understand why they were split up like that, but it definitely slows things down for me. Wish this one thing could get looked into.

 

[robgb]

I wish I could say I hear something special here, but I don't. I have a dozen string libraries and the majority of them are certainly as good or better than what I'm hearing here. That's different, of course, than actually owning the library, but I don't hear anything that, FOR ME AT LEAST, justifies the price. Even on sale.

I'm very glad, however, that you love it. It's always nice to fall in love with the libraries we spend good money for.

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

I'm very glad, however, that you love it. It's always nice to fall in love with the libraries we spend good money for.

Thank you

 

[jbuhler]

My biggest pet peeve with the library. Berlin Strings has articulations that have articulations, which is beyond cool. So I can understand why they were split up like that, but it definitely slows things down for me. Wish this one thing could get looked into.

Some of it has to do with the sheer number of articulations available, and some of it has to do with the limitations of Capsule (only 12 slots, as I recall) and the limitations of Sine, both of which require using multiple midi channels to load all the articulations on a single track. Logic doesn't like to write CCs to all channels or omni, so then if you change your mind about an articulation and it's on another channel you have to remember to change the midi channel of the CC as well, and that means copying CCs from one channel to another, but you can also neglect to make the change... And if you use a script to propagate the CCs, you can easily end up with conflicts because Logic insists on writing automation to the channel assigned to the articulation. So there is just a lot of friction.

What OT needs is a system like SF's UACC KS which would allow all the articulations to be on the same midi channel. (You might be able to accomplish this in Kontakt with program changes, but Kontakt program changes have other issues that make it less than optimal for me.)

 

[Gensaii]

Some of it has to do with the sheer number of articulations available, and some of it has to do with the limitations of Capsule (only 12 slots, as I recall) and the limitations of Sine, both of which require using multiple midi channels to load all the articulations on a single track. Logic doesn't like to write CCs to all channels or omni, so then if you change your mind about an articulation and it's on another channel you have to remember to change the midi channel of the CC as well, and that means copying CCs from one channel to another, but you can also neglect to make the change... And if you use a script to propagate the CCs, you can easily end up with conflicts because Logic insists on writing automation to the channel assigned to the articulation. So there is just a lot of friction.

What OT needs is a system like SF's UACC KS which would allow all the articulations to be on the same midi channel. (You might be able to accomplish this in Kontakt with program changes, but Kontakt program changes have other issues that make it less than optimal for me.)

I've been wondering this. Couldn't those limitations (Sine or Capsule) just be ignored? I don't need to be able to load every articulation on the same channel. Just the 16 (or 12) I need the most. Does that sound like something they'd be able to do?

 

[gamma-ut]

I've been wondering this. Couldn't those limitations (Sine or Capsule) just be ignored? I don't need to be able to load every articulation on the same channel. Just the 16 (or 12) I need the most. Does that sound like something they'd be able to do?

Can't you do that already? Unless I'm missing something you can drag them individually. If they wind up on different MIDI channels (as SINE is a bit finicky about where you drag things), using the Remap function available from the little gear icon. Then save as a preset.

Or do you mean across different groupings as in Longs with Dynamics?

 

[Gensaii]

Can't you do that already? Unless I'm missing something you can drag them individually. If they wind up on different MIDI channels (as SINE is a bit finicky about where you drag things), using the Remap function available from the little gear icon. Then save as a preset.

Trust me, I'm all about tinkering and finding workarounds. It's how Berlin Strings is still probably my favorite library. But man, I miss being able to just throw in an articulation and switch around and not worry about a thing, like with BSS.

 

[constaneum]

how blown away is blown away as the demos i'm hearing here are focusing on the shorts. Any other long samples, especially the legato patches?

 

[gamma-ut]

Trust me, I'm all about tinkering and finding workarounds. It's how Berlin Strings is still probably my favorite library. But man, I miss being able to just throw in an articulation and switch around and not worry about a thing, like with BSS.

The one workaround I can think of though I haven't tried it properly is to use a MIDIfx plugin to remap keyswitches to different MIDI channels. It would take some organising but it seems reasonably straightforward to write MIDI to channel one and have some ghost key switches set up that remap anything following them to the destination channels. It would be like a heavily cut-down version of Orange Tree's Mind Control for Kontakt.

There is probably some money for that in a MIDIfx plugin with a whizzy UI for this kind of thing if it doesn't already exist and I've missed it.

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

The one workaround I can think of though I haven't tried it properly is to use a MIDIfx plugin to remap keyswitches to different MIDI channels. It would take some organising but it seems reasonably straightforward to write MIDI to channel one and have some ghost key switches set up that remap anything following them to the destination channels. It would be like a heavily cut-down version of Orange Tree's Mind Control for Kontakt.

There is probably some money for that in a MIDIfx plugin with a whizzy UI for this kind of thing if it doesn't already exist and I've missed it.

Maybe a plugin idea for you, @Land of Missing Parts ?

 

[Zanshin]

Berlin is best!

Enjoy

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

how blown away is blown away as the demos i'm hearing here are focusing on the shorts. Any other long samples, especially the legato patches?

Yes, what do you mean? It’s not supposed to be a demonstration or review of Berlin Strings, there are much better people who have already made those on Youtube

 

[Henrik B. Jensen]

I wish I could say I hear something special here, but I don't. I have a dozen string libraries and the majority of them are certainly as good or better than what I'm hearing here. That's different, of course, than actually owning the library, but I don't hear anything that, FOR ME AT LEAST, justifies the price. Even on sale.

I'm very glad, however, that you love it. It's always nice to fall in love with the libraries we spend good money for.

I know what you mean.

Before shelling out I spent several days in agony, considering pros and cons as well as loading up string libraries to test their sound against that of Berlin Strings Kontakt.

And you are so right: There are many good string libraries on the market already, several of which I had already prior to buying these. But the natural reverb in Teldex Scoring Stage is just magical IMO. It gives instruments a sort of “golden glow” around and “after” them which is a big factor why I sit at the keyboard and smile and shake my head in disbelief when I hit the keys and hear those samples

Then comes the no. of articulations; that OT sampled both double and triple notes as well as (more) repetitions; a solid choice of microphone positions - not too few, not too many - and the fact that they sampled a whole orchestra in that superb room, each section fitting the rest.

CSS 1.7.1 sounds great and so does Spitfire’s stuff & Pacific Ensemble Strings and others. They just don’t gel with me the way Berlin Strings does - soundwise or in actual use. But I understand 100% why others love those other libraries.

We are spoiled with choice these days, it’s great!

 

[Monkberry]

After seeing the NI sale for Berlin Strings, I started revisiting all the YouTube reviews to see if these were still relavent compared with current options. With all the Native Access drama happening, I wasn't inclined to pull the trigger but a few of the vi-c members posted that OT was granting a free crossgrade to the SINE version so I pulled the trigger. I have to say, I love the sound of Teldex Scoring Stage with this library. I ended up buying their entire bundle, of which OT offered a discount for. No regrets. These share my top spot along with SA Chamber Strings Pro. It's good to see that people who bought these earlier still love the library.

 

[madfloyd]

Berlin Strings has a great sound, and it's perhaps my favorite sounding string library.

It's very fussy to program, and not especially conducive to a one track per instrument workflows in either Kontakt or Sine. So I mostly don't use it. (I do use BSS, Special Bows, and Berlin Con Sordinos quite a lot.)

Same here. I gave up on it even though I LOVE THE SOUND.