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Bitwig 5 workflow for orchestral projects and video

M

Message Space

New Member
I had a few questions for bitwig users doing orchestral projects.

1. syncing video, there was conflicting info on reddit about the best way to do this because there is no native support. Is it even remotely usable, for any form of scrolling or movement by frame? Ableton's video is barebones but sufficient, does bitwig compare to this?
2. How do you smoothly draw, manipulate or input tempo changes that need to be matched to video hit points or "soft syncing" to scene cues, a la cubase?
3. articulations - are you just using separate tracks as a work around for key switching? eg. VSL synchron and spitfire.

4. are typical CC and expression tracks or automation lanes simultaneously available for easy editing in arrange view or found in clips or devices or a submenu?
5. Pro tools allows you to leave cues and markers by either absolute SMPTE time, or in midi bar/beat time so that markers shift with the bar location if you change the sessions tempo. I believe ableton live markers are only relational to the midi timeline, so they become out of sync with video as soon as you change the tempo. Are absolute time markers available in bitwig?

Thank you
Click to read more...
 
1) there is the "vidplay" plugin and its controller (needed for better sync).
2) here is THE caveat, and believe me, absolutely no workaround possible. My main complain about Bitwig.
3) see the post about that. There is several good workarounds for a one track per instrument system.
4) no, one cc at a time
5) no, and no workaround
 
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Message Space said:
3. articulations - are you just using separate tracks as a work around for key switching? eg. VSL synchron and spitfire.

Click to expand...
My preferred way in Bitwig is to set up MIDI clips in the Clip Launcher containing the MIDI data for switching to a specific articulation. You can click them in real-time, or assign a button pad to launch clips, or drag and drop to the arrange window to set up articulation switching while composing. My articulation-switching clips are placed on a track that sends (as output) to the musical MIDI track. So in the arrange window I see the articulation clips below the music (longs, harmonics, tremolo etc).

Unfortunately, the 512 midi streams limitation makes Bitwig very bad with Divisimate and because of this I currently do most work in Cubase. I also made a dropdown articulation switcher in the Grid, like what we have in Studio One, but it killed the CPU (AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16-Core Processor 4.50 GHz) so that bug is another showstopper for me.
 
robismz said:
4) no, one cc at a time
Click to expand...
I haven't used Bitwig for over a year but I do seem to remember you can have multiple CCs available at the same time. At least when the piano roll is occupying all the screen, not sure when using it in the bottom panel.

The GUI for managing multiple CCs is a pita and I seem to remember there are resizing limitations too.

You also have to manually open the CCs for each and every single track in your project. So yeah, if you want to see CC1 you have to do that on every single track. Every fucking time on every new track. Same with showing velocities. It's infuriating.

Bitwig has many UX shortcomings but this is really the thing that pushed me away from it. It's amazing for sound design and great for mixing but terrible for writing MIDI. Of course if you're writing short MIDI loops this won't be a big issue but orchestral stuff is quite MIDI heavy.

Cubase has many shortcomings but the MIDI and the piano roll are spot on IMO.

Edit:

At least this was my experience with v4 but AFAIK nothing has changed in v5. Plenty of people have complained about these UX bread and butter features on KVR, Reddit, etc but the Bitwig devs have been ignoring user requests almost since v1 was released.

Someone even created this forum wishlist for Bitwig features which again is being ignored by the devs.

These are the top features requested:

bitwish.top

Features

If you see a feature request you want to support, log in and vote for it! You can vote up to 10 requests. For more details, see <a href="https://bitwish.top/t/community-wishlist-voting-guide/279" class="inline-onebox">Community wishlist voting guide</a>.
bitwish.top bitwish.top

Used it for about 2 years and lost faith in Bitwig tbh. It's like the devs only want to work on cool things instead of all the boring bread and butter features needed to make it a serious product (IMO).
 
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Per Boysen said:
My preferred way in Bitwig is to set up MIDI clips in the Clip Launcher containing the MIDI data for switching to a specific articulation. You can click them in real-time, or assign a button pad to launch clips, or drag and drop to the arrange window to set up articulation switching while composing. My articulation-switching clips are placed on a track that sends (as output) to the musical MIDI track. So in the arrange window I see the articulation clips below the music (longs, harmonics, tremolo etc).
Click to expand...
I don't think I'm understanding this. Is there an example of this workflow online?
Thank you.
 
Pier said:
I haven't used Bitwig for over a year but I do seem to remember you can have multiple CCs available at the same time. At least when the piano roll is occupying all the screen, not sure when using it in the bottom panel.

The GUI for managing multiple CCs is a pita and I seem to remember there are resizing limitations too.

You also have to manually open the CCs for each and every single track in your project. So yeah, if you want to see CC1 you have to do that on every single track. Every fucking time on every new track. Same with showing velocities. It's infuriating.

Bitwig has many UX shortcomings but this is really the thing that pushed me away from it. It's amazing for sound design and great for mixing but terrible for writing MIDI. Of course if you're writing short MIDI loops this won't be a big issue but orchestral stuff is quite MIDI heavy.

Cubase has many shortcomings but the MIDI and the piano roll are spot on IMO.

Edit:

At least this was my experience with v4 but AFAIK nothing has changed in v5. Plenty of people have complained about these UX bread and butter features on KVR, Reddit, etc but the Bitwig devs have been ignoring user requests almost since v1 was released.

Someone even created this forum wishlist for Bitwig features which again is being ignored by the devs.

These are the top features requested:

bitwish.top

Features

If you see a feature request you want to support, log in and vote for it! You can vote up to 10 requests. For more details, see <a href="https://bitwish.top/t/community-wishlist-voting-guide/279" class="inline-onebox">Community wishlist voting guide</a>.
bitwish.top bitwish.top

Used it for about 2 years and lost faith in Bitwig tbh. It's like the devs only want to work on cool things instead of all the boring bread and butter features needed to make it a serious product (IMO).
Click to expand...
I mean, one cc per lane, no multiple curves in the same real estate (like, if I remember, in Cubase)
 
robismz said:
I mean, one cc per lane, no multiple curves in the same real estate (like, if I remember, in Cubase)
Click to expand...
Ah right.

AFAIK in Cubase it's still one CC per lane but you can have multiple lanes in the same piano roll.
 
Pier said:
Ah right.

AFAIK in Cubase it's still one CC per lane but you can have multiple lanes in the same piano roll.
Click to expand...
I must have lost my memory then.
In Bitwig, it's easy to set favorite automations, but automation is not its strengh though.
 
robismz said:
In Bitwig, it's easy to set favorite automations, but automation is not its strengh though.
Click to expand...
This is only for the arrangement window, right? What I mean is that it's not available in the piano roll.

IIRC you can see CCs in the automation lanes but you need to add some device to translate between the two.
 
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I would like to parse here and there some predefined mseg curve that would pilot cc1. The automation is tedious, but this might be a way to rely on Bitwig strenght rather than its weakness. The thing is, I don't exactly know how to do that, provided it's even possible.
 
Bitwig 5.2b1 has been rock solid for me (as Bitwig has always been). Cool new devices, new rendering engine, the "precision editing" features are awesome.

Still, *this* could be a game changer for me... I have not tested it yet, but if it works I will be able to turn a "conductor" track into tempo automation. This was the last thing on my Bitwig wish-list. I might have reached DAW bliss... :emoji_blush:

1714247513004.png
 
apessino said:
Bitwig 5.2b1 has been rock solid for me (as Bitwig has always been). Cool new devices, new rendering engine, the "precision editing" features are awesome.

Still, *this* could be a game changer for me... I have not tested it yet, but if it works I will be able to turn a "conductor" track into tempo automation. This was the last thing on my Bitwig wish-list. I might have reached DAW bliss... :emoji_blush:

1714247513004.png
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it is not for midi track. I've asked them why, and they answered it will be on a next release, but not 5.2. I'm sad because it is my very first wish about Bitwig. Tbh, I don't care about yet a new compressor or eq device, like if I didn't already have everything I need.
 
robismz said:
Unfortunately, it is not for midi track. I've asked them why, and they answered it will be on a next release, but not 5.2. I'm sad because it is my very first wish about Bitwig. Tbh, I don't care about yet a new compressor or eq device, like if I didn't already have everything I need.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand what the feature is? It copies a clips tempo metadata to the arrange window's tempo, so that the clip doesn't warp?
 
robismz said:
Unfortunately, it is not for midi track. I've asked them why, and they answered it will be on a next release, but not 5.2. I'm sad because it is my very first wish about Bitwig.
Click to expand...
Sure, but for now bouncing the MIDI to audio (making sure the transients are nice and clean) and then applying the tempo should work fine and it's just one extra step. :)
 
Message Space said:
I'm not sure I understand what the feature is? It copies a clips tempo metadata to the arrange window's tempo, so that the clip doesn't warp?
Click to expand...
No, the idea is that Bitwig uses the transient/beat analysis to build project tempo automation (as in: the closest thing Bitwig has ever had to a tempo track, which is automating tempo on the Master track). Say you play a track without a click, in free tempo, but presumably with relatively clear beat-defining transients, then you select that audio and use the Apply Tempo Curve function to automatically generate the tempo change automation so that the grid/beats match the tempo you played. Now you'll be able to turn on the click, quantize, etc. the new clips you play in. The grid will match the tempo you played.

This was a major part of my workflow with Cubase and then Studio One: play a reference track (generally on the piano) without being constrained to a click, then "warp" the beats to the tempo track, then build from there. Once I did a mockup of the overture to Verdi's Attila by generating the tempo from a recording of it, then playing in each part from the score. Essentially I "stole" the beats from Claudio Abbado. :D

Cubase and S1 both have even more advanced tempo warping tools, so you can, for example, stretch beats to hit cues or hitpoints after the fact. Bitwig still won't have these, but having the ability to generate at least a rough tempo map from audio (or MIDI) is huge if you want to play in parts organically and not be tied to a click.
 
But with midi, it had been
- easier to code (no transiant calculation, just let the user insert beats)
- easier to use (ability to modify the "piano reference track" after. eg, quantize the imperfect notes, even keep the piano in the piece).
 
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