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Apple M3

Pier

Pier

Senior Member
I created this thread because I didn't want to derail this thread any more... :)

To give some context, @rnb_2 and I were discussing about the future of the Mac Pro.

rnb_2 said:
Much of the desktop very high performance market is GPU-focused - specifically NVIDIA GPU-focused - and we know that Apple's relationship with NVIDIA died years ago. They can't match those specs without devoting MUCH more of the die to GPU cores, and I don't see them doing that to the degree necessary to keep pace with GPU cards that retail over $1k. Maybe the M7 rumor will see them produce a GPU package with many more cores for those that want it, but that's several years out.
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It wouldn't be surprising if Apple wanted to regain some of the pro GPU-focused market. I'm thinking of 3D and VFX artists mostly.

And they did start talking about gaming on the Mac too which was surprising. I think they actually spent more time on that with Kojima than on the M2 Mac Pro :)

The GPU perf increase from the M1 Ultra to the M2 Ultra was about 30% with the same build process. If the M3 Ultra improves close to 50% in GPU perf, it would put it much closer to the RTX4090. I'm sure that would convince some users that prefer working on macOS to come back from Windows.
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They would be able to attract more professionals from the Windows world if they offered pro machines that don't predominantly smell like overpriced fashion statements that don't always age so well. And by that I mean expand-ability in regards to RAM and graphic cards, easily swappable internal NVMe's and the stinginess in ports and connectivity. Yes, and that's a statement from a long time mac user.
 
I think a lot of people had way too high of expectations for the M2 line. Especially after the rumor that the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra would be on a new 3 nm process was quashed. It seems that a decent amount of folks were expecting the gains of a process shrink even when it was known that the whole M2 line would be on the same process. And some others seemed to think that the difference in performance from the Intel chips to the M1 line was somehow going to be the typical increase in performance between Apple Silicon revisions.

M2 gives a good bump in performance for what it is. But you are correct in that Apple really needs to step things up in the GPU performance department in order to remain competitive in that space. M2 doesn't have the same GPU scaling issues that M1 did, but it is still not competitive with higher-end Nvidia cards.

The performance per watt though is of course absolutely amazing.
 
Pier said:
If the M3 Ultra improves close to 50% in GPU perf, it would put it much closer to the RTX4090. I'm sure that would convince some users that prefer working on macOS to come back from Windows.
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Technically speaking, any improvement would put it "closer to the RTX 4090". But right now, it's far behind.

1690576793523.png

We can see that the 4090 is providing more than double the performance of the best available M2 chip (the M2 Ultra). It's kind of confusing because sometimes, benchmarks compare it to the mobile version of the 4090, which is fair in a laptop comparison but obviously misleading in a desktop comparison.

Normally, I would say that it's quite obvious that the 4090 would outperform Apple's offerings, since it costs $1,600. However, Apple's chips aren't cheap either. You could easily end up paying more for the M2 chip at the end of the day than a top specced AMD + Nvidia build.

I still think Apple's achievement is technically impressive though. My thinking is that the reason they didn't go all out for the GPU is simply because the majority of their customers don't need it. I think video editing is already "good enough" that they're not forced to improve there. For 3D rendering, machine learning, and hardcore gaming you'll still want an Nvidia card for now.
 
Wunderhorn said:
They would be able to attract more professionals from the Windows world if they offered pro machines that don't predominantly smell like overpriced fashion statements that don't always age so well. And by that I mean expand-ability in regards to RAM and graphic cards, easily swappable internal NVMe's and the stinginess in ports and connectivity. Yes, and that's a statement from a long time mac user.
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+1
I would absolutely pounce on a M3 Mac Pro if it was upgradable like the previous MP’s unfortunately the price will probably be 😱
 
Except for some really high end machines, I don’t think you will ever see another user upgradable Mac. I think Apple wishes they had never made the 5,1. They’ve spent the last decade making their computers unserviceable and fighting right-to-repair legislation. They want to sell you every part in your Mac at an outrageous markup. Their entire business model is planned obsolescence. I’ve been using an Apple product since 1984, and I absolutely love Macs. But they’re the greediest bastards on the planet.
 
Jett Hitt said:
Except for some really high end machines, I don’t think you will ever see another user upgradable Mac. I think Apple wishes they had never made the 5,1. They’ve spent the last decade making their computers unserviceable and fighting right-to-repair legislation. They want to sell you every part in your Mac at an outrageous markup. Their entire business model is planned obsolescence. I’ve been using an Apple product since 1984, and I absolutely love Macs. But they’re the greediest bastards on the planet.
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Agree lol


I’m still using a 5,1 it was an incredible release. Originally my MP was a quad 2.8ghz 8 gig With a small spinning hd through upgrades it’s now 12 core 96gig 2tb SSD.
It’s obviously not as capable,powerful or fast as a newer M range,so I’m hopeful that the next generation will offer something that’s more suitable for my transition to M3’s
 
Well, M3 will be a bit faster and probably enable more ram. Probably not more exciting that m2 compared to m1 ... Now that Apple produces their own chips, they are not going to make a jump to big from one generation to the next, as that would spoil the business for next years machine that has gotten just a little bit better.

The architecture of Apple Silicon seems to make it unlikely that we will see anything like user upgradable ram or PCIe graphic cards.

Personally, I think there is room for something between the Mac Studio and the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is too expensive and too big just to add some internal storage. All other things I used to run via PCIe (UAD card, RME HDSPe, ...) I already have thunderbolt or USB alternatives or no longer need it. So, I would actually like something about double the size of Mac Studio that would just house a few extra SSD m2 blades (not provided by Apple!!!). Or a smaller Mac Pro tower. But actually I don't think Apple will do anything for people who have concerns spending way to much money, so, I guess I will settle with a Mac Studio once my Hackintosh is getting to weak.
 
Nick Batzdorf said:
The rumor I read is that the M3 will have 3nm manufacturing, which means the transistors are closer together and it’s more faster and stuff.
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I think the 3nm build process is pretty much a certainty at this point :)

The rumors predict:

- 35% efficiency improvement
- Up to 40 CPU cores
- More CPU and GPU cores

I think a conservative estimate would be getting 20% CPU and 30% GPU improvements like we saw with the M1 to M2. But given the 3nm process and the increase in cores I think it could be closer to something like 30% CPU and 40% GPU.
 
Just want to jump in to say (without starting a war)… I know people love to jump on apple for “planned obsolescence“ and it may be true for their consumer based products but I have been using apple computers for the last 25 years, only their pro lines (or power lines back in the day) and every computer I have ever owned from them is still in my studio and still work to this day without issue and without need to replace parts (when the option was available… to a small extent).

I can not say the same for the few fairly expensive PC’s I have owned over the years. However this in not about Mac vs PC. Point is that Planned obsolescence in their pro market is hearsay.
 
Kslovelace said:
Point is that Planned obsolescence in their pro market is hearsay.
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I don't think planned obsolescence is a certainty, but I do think that many manufacturers aren't prioritizing reliability anymore. You're very lucky that you've never needed to replace parts for the last 25 years, but my experiences don't match that. Numerous Apple users and PC users who I know have needed to replace parts, although replacing parts isn't the end of the world.
 
QuiteAlright said:
I don't think planned obsolescence is a certainty, but I do think that many manufacturers aren't prioritizing reliability anymore. You're very lucky that you've never needed to replace parts for the last 25 years, but my experiences don't match that. Numerous Apple users and PC users who I know have needed to replace parts, although replacing parts isn't the end of the world.
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I recognize I have been fortunate, I also recognize when mass production of anything is involved there is going to be some issues, defects, etc. across the lot as a whole. But if you pull up any apple related thread on this forum, there is always someone talking about planed obsolescence. Thanks for the discussion!

On subject… just want to say that while picking up the M2 Max MBP has put a damper on my anticipation for the M3, I am a huge supporter of Apple computers as they have provided me a tool to express myself creatively for many years and I am excited to see where they take the M series chips over the next few years.
 
A rumoured October launch for the first M3 models is good timing for me as I’ll be looking to replace my 2019 MacBook Pro (the worst Mac I’ve ever owned.)

I can’t help but think that an M3 Air with a memory bump will be more than enough for me..I don’t reach huge track counts generally.

These M chips really have revitalised the Mac line though.
 
Meanwhile, what are the names of the four people in this galaxy who have an M1 Max - not Ultra - and are running out of computer?

One of them is the cousin of the former grade school teacher of the neighbor who knows the mother of the ER nurse when Richard Gere was there having a mole removed.

So the other three, please?
 
Alex Fraser said:
I can’t help but think that an M3 Air with a memory bump will be more than enough for me..I don’t reach huge track counts generally.
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The Air doesn't have fans. It's great for bursty workloads, but audio/music production is generally a sustained CPU workload (probably over hours). At some point it'll start to throttle.

The 13'' MBP comes with the same chip but it does have a fan. Who knows if Apple will keep it around for the M3 though.
 
Pier said:
OTOH GPU Audio is a thing.

VSL Mir is already using it:

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I see your point, but It's an emerging technology. That doesn't justify buying $3000 worth of GPU power for a few plugins when everything else runs on the CPU. 16 GPU cores would still be fine, but Logic ain't running on them.
 
Kslovelace said:
Just want to jump in to say (without starting a war)… I know people love to jump on apple for “planned obsolescence“ and it may be true for their consumer based products but I have been using apple computers for the last 25 years, only their pro lines (or power lines back in the day) and every computer I have ever owned from them is still in my studio and still work to this day without issue and without need to replace parts (when the option was available… to a small extent).

I can not say the same for the few fairly expensive PC’s I have owned over the years. However this in not about Mac vs PC. Point is that Planned obsolescence in their pro market is hearsay.
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You fail to understand what I mean by "planned obsolescence." My computers don't fail. Apple just quits supporting them. I am typing on a wonderful 2014 iMac with a 4Ghz processor, a 5k monitor, and 32 GB of RAM. It is an awesome machine, but Apple quit supporting it at Big Sur.
 
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