Kenneth Malm
Member
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Infinite Series (Aaron Venture) thread
- Thread starter M0rdechai
- Start date
To see a World in a Grain of SandInfinite is like this close
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
I like music
Senior Member
Ah crap, the gif won't display on my machine!
Bollen
Vintage Member
whoa!!! Damn man it does! Crazy, I'm so accustomed to SM trumpet that to hear that gave me like a vertigo feeling...Gingham Jones
Member
If anyone's interested, I just made a video walking through all the sampled instruments I used in an experimental rock song from an album I recently released. Aaron Venture's IB made some wonderful contributions!
El Buhdai
Active Member
I'm convinced that when Infinite Strings drops, all of my budgeting and careful management of my finances will go out the window.
donnyluvd2bowl
Member
Hey all-- quick question:
Just getting around to having time to install 1.6 (brass). The instructions to update say just delete the old one.... so you basically have to rebuild your multi from scratch? or am I missing something here
Just getting around to having time to install 1.6 (brass). The instructions to update say just delete the old one.... so you basically have to rebuild your multi from scratch? or am I missing something here
shawnsingh
Senior Member
I've always just installed them in separate directories so that I didn't have to delete the old versions... Hopefully I'm not making a mistake that would make new versions work in a weird way?
donnyluvd2bowl
Member
right but that part aside, essentially I need to just replace each patch and start over remapping things etc...?
DSKcomposer
Hopeful
How do you like that Spark amp?
Gingham Jones
Member
You know, I just got it yesterday and I love it! Obviously it doesn't sound as big and clear as a full size amp but it doesn't sound as small and thin as I expected. I wish it had a little more high-end is the only complaint I have. I really wanted to get "out of the box" though and I found this box at a good price. Lots of amp options and you can play music through Bluetooth too. I'm very impressed.
shawnsingh
Senior Member
That's what I've done, yes... I think some of the configuration can be done more quickly by using the pre configured midi controls, i.e. there's midi controls for the mic positions and which venue. Unfortunately, with 1.4 and 1.5 I had some cases where venue doesn't change properly when you change all tracks at the same time. Not sure if that's a kontakt problem or something Aaron can fix. And if you intend to use midi learn, it still does require going through each new instrument and adjusting it.
At the end of the day, I think it's not too painful, it may take just an hour to setup midi learning and a basic mix you like, then you can save each nki (of course keep Aaron's originals as backups), and that would mostly be a one time cost to update your workflow or to update to a new version.
I just wanted to follow up on this and make sure I wasn't completely imagining this, so I made a quick demo. I tried to duplicate your settings and then played your legato demo. To make it easy to compare, I put the audio from your demo immediately after mine. I really notice a strong phasing sound at the beginning of the second phrase in your demo, but all of your demo has some kind of chorus sound to it. I don't hear that kind of thing in my demo.
Anyway, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about the basic tone or whether or not they find IB difficult to play or control, I just feel like something went wrong with IB in the video and wanted to hear a version that sounds like what I hear on my system.
View attachment ib legato examples.mp3
shawnsingh
Senior Member
I was wondering about that phasing too... Infinite had been the most phase free of all libraries I've ever tried - actually yet another reason it became hard to go back to other libraries, even ones that had minimal phase problems it just became too noticeable.
aaronventure
Senior Member
Are you on 1.6? In 1.5, a couple of users were experiencing consistent phasing on their systems, and in 1.6 I deployed a fix which permanently fixed this. There should be no phasing whatsoever in 1.6.
If you have, did you leave 1.6 as a separate folder? If you just overwrote the old folder, you have to manually replace all the patches in your projects and templates, since the Kontakt patches are stored in your project files and are not automatically refreshed (they only automatically pull the script and assets, which is just a part of the equation).
Oxytoxine
Active Member
Mikro93
Senior Member (he/they)
I mentionned the Cuphead soundtrack in a gaming thread. Here's a very quick tutti from the track Floral Fury, using Infinite Woodwinds, and Wavesfactory Sharine and Samba Drums.
EDIT: V2, slightly different mix, note length adjustments, random note start, percussion intro.
EDIT: Added V3, in the original key (a fourth higher, my bad). RAH I wanna hear it with brass. Why u do this to me, Aaron
EDIT (I'd like it to be the last one, but it won't): there's probably more to be done for realism, I'll look into it later!
EDIT: V2, slightly different mix, note length adjustments, random note start, percussion intro.
EDIT: Added V3, in the original key (a fourth higher, my bad). RAH I wanna hear it with brass. Why u do this to me, Aaron
EDIT (I'd like it to be the last one, but it won't): there's probably more to be done for realism, I'll look into it later!
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Mikro93
Senior Member (he/they)
Okay, feedback time!
This is after a few hours of playing with IW and writing a couple of tracks.
I'm running Kontakt 6 latest version, Ableton Live 10 Suite, on my new, mid-range gaming laptop (i5 10something, 8 GB of RAM, samples on an external SSD).
- The random aspects of the expression makes it so that IW can pull off ostinatos and repeating patterns that any other library I own would, at best, struggle with. See example track below!
- Every woodwind you might think of.
- Very lightweight, easy on the RAM, which is amazing given the sound.
- The close sounds are just. so. good. Because they're just so clinically perfect, for the better or worse, getting a close sound is no problem at all. And that's such a hard quality to pull off for a sample library, especially for woodwinds.
- I feel like everything is slightly slurred all the time - I would enjoy the option of a much faster legato transition, maybe velocity-based? Maybe I could dig under the hood a bit for that. The legato is quite nice, though, especially given that it's scripted. EDIT: I think that saying that the legato is "quite nice" is not giving it the merit it deserves. The legato is actually great
- Sometimes, the attacks cannot be snappy enough, for my taste. But as one of my music teacher once said, "there is a whole universe in a baritone saxophone's attack". So, no sweat if a sample library doesn't have whole universes in it
- The room tones are a bit difficult to play with. I usually find that, if I want a big hall sound, I'm not happy with the default patches, but they make a nice starting point. Usually, the close mic makes it more difficult to place the instrument in a room that I would feel convincing. YMMV.
- There is a LOT of low-end, and that sometimes makes the instrument sound a bit synthetic. I've had to remove the low-end quite a lot, through multiband compression or EQs. And at the same time, it's better that way than not having enough low-end, and I'm happy with it.
- Hanging notes galore - that actually doesn't bother me much.
- Not sure if it's a bug, but I would have very some noticeable pitch randomness even with the pitch accuracy to the max, more than I would expect from a professionnal player. But it usually doesn't sound bad in the mix.
- Bass Clarinet
- Bassoon
- Clarinet
- Alto Flute (lots of potential)
- Baritone Sax (some stuff can be done with it, even though I find it lacks the attacks we could expect from a real baritone)
- Basically all other saxes, unfortunately. And in these saxes, the higher the worse.
- English Horn
- Contrabassoon
- Contrabass Clarinet
Infinite Woodwinds is, and I don't say it lightly, a game changer for me. The expressivity is top notch, the library is lightweight, and the tone is 90% there - and I don't mean that all instruments are 90% convincing: some are solid 100% for me, others not so much. So there's plenty to write convincing stuff! I've been able to write this little snippet (see attached) that no other library that I know of could make come to life. Expressivity makes it possible to make a track more convicing than with a classic sample library. It's all about the suspension of disbelief (second time I use this expression here today).
The downside of that is that your tracks will only sound as good as you can make them. I know, it's a bit of a tautology, but bear with me: if you play an arc patch from a regular sample library, you play back an expressive note, which is recorded from an experienced player in a great room, and it will sound good. None of that easy stuff with IW: you're the player. Don't be happy with a first take, don't use the default patches and mixes, don't use the built-in vibrato settings: your tracks deserve better. You can make them sound just the way they should sound, but you have to put in the work, use your ears, your concert memories and what you know from an actual woodwind section. It will be worth it. And I say that without having applied all of that to my demonstration track, so a V2 (EDIT: V3) should happen.
When I write music with a library, I usually like playing to the samples, and I got decent at that. But here, what to do? No legato crossfades, no sample sticking out, no release issue? That allows me to focus on the music, in a very different state of mind: what IW does well, it does amazingly. And for the rest, I just won't go there. It's like an on/off switch: either I can use it for I want, or I just won't. There's no bending the hard parts. For example: I love the bass clarinet, and I feel like I can make anything I want with it. But I don't like the soprano saxophone, and there's probably not much I would do with it that would satisfy me. It's a difficult thing to explain, and I hadn't read about it before.
I feel like most of the users here are placing the instruments in the bigger spaces, but I find even more impressive what can be done with the Studio IR. This is an absolute jewel for intimate music, and definitely the context for which I would recommend IW the most.
In my opinion, it is not a one-ends-all library, but we are so, so darn close to that.
Aaron has made it clear that he has great plans for the whole series, and a desire to refine it to make it the ultimate weapon - I can't wait to see what you have in mind And the fact that you have achieved so much on your own is absolutely mind-blowing to me!
In the meantime, I'm really, really pleased with I have so far.
Well, almost.
Because, well, you know, there's Infinite Brass, and I don't have that.
This is after a few hours of playing with IW and writing a couple of tracks.
I'm running Kontakt 6 latest version, Ableton Live 10 Suite, on my new, mid-range gaming laptop (i5 10something, 8 GB of RAM, samples on an external SSD).
The goodies!
- The instruments are very, and I mean, very expressive. IW is living up to its reputation - it's like writing with real players. I would be reminded of moments in my life when I was playing in an orchestra, and the conductor would stop and give instructions to some players. It feels a bit like that: "make it more of a bell sound", "give it a shorter attack", "make it breathe", "c'mon, get into it, this is not band camp", and with a combination of note length, velocity and CC1, you try and get there. And there are so many subtleties and nuances that IW allows, and this a proper achievement, not to mention a technical prowess.- The random aspects of the expression makes it so that IW can pull off ostinatos and repeating patterns that any other library I own would, at best, struggle with. See example track below!
- Every woodwind you might think of.
- Very lightweight, easy on the RAM, which is amazing given the sound.
- The close sounds are just. so. good. Because they're just so clinically perfect, for the better or worse, getting a close sound is no problem at all. And that's such a hard quality to pull off for a sample library, especially for woodwinds.
The baddies!
- For all of the goodies, I feel like there is a compromise, which I was aware of before buying, so no bad surprise for me: the tone is not always there (see the ranking below). I'll mention the saxophones, and the flute. I've seen that the flute sound is effectively made of several components, and I've tried adjusting the tone of the noise for example, but I'm not there yet. Aaron has proven to be very active with his update policy, which is great, and he did mention having plenty of plans. I would be wary of a bad case of "waiting for the next update", though. I'd prefer not to rely on that, so for the time being, I'll do with what I have: a very, very nice collection with IW, the ability to click on the wrench icon (but with great powers etc. etc.), and other sample libraries if I need a more convincing tone here and there.- I feel like everything is slightly slurred all the time - I would enjoy the option of a much faster legato transition, maybe velocity-based? Maybe I could dig under the hood a bit for that. The legato is quite nice, though, especially given that it's scripted. EDIT: I think that saying that the legato is "quite nice" is not giving it the merit it deserves. The legato is actually great
- Sometimes, the attacks cannot be snappy enough, for my taste. But as one of my music teacher once said, "there is a whole universe in a baritone saxophone's attack". So, no sweat if a sample library doesn't have whole universes in it
- The room tones are a bit difficult to play with. I usually find that, if I want a big hall sound, I'm not happy with the default patches, but they make a nice starting point. Usually, the close mic makes it more difficult to place the instrument in a room that I would feel convincing. YMMV.
- There is a LOT of low-end, and that sometimes makes the instrument sound a bit synthetic. I've had to remove the low-end quite a lot, through multiband compression or EQs. And at the same time, it's better that way than not having enough low-end, and I'm happy with it.
The buggies! (Aaron, hit me up if you need any more details)
- I've had my bass flute suffer from an Organ SyndromeTM: out of seemingly nowhere (I should look into it, but it happened several times), it wouldn't react to the Dynamic fader anymore, or CC1, or play any vibrato at all. The solutions I've found so far are to reboot Ableton, or reopen the instrument (but you have to get your settings back).- Hanging notes galore - that actually doesn't bother me much.
- Not sure if it's a bug, but I would have very some noticeable pitch randomness even with the pitch accuracy to the max, more than I would expect from a professionnal player. But it usually doesn't sound bad in the mix.
The ranking! (Tone-wise)
Top Tier:
- Bass Flute (yes yes yes)- Bass Clarinet
- Bassoon
High Tier:
- Oboe (and I know others might disagree)- Clarinet
Mid Tier:
- Piccolo (pretty good still)- Alto Flute (lots of potential)
- Baritone Sax (some stuff can be done with it, even though I find it lacks the attacks we could expect from a real baritone)
Low Tier:
- Flute (the tone is not there yet).- Basically all other saxes, unfortunately. And in these saxes, the higher the worse.
No Tier (haven't tried them enough):
- Bass Oboe- English Horn
- Contrabassoon
- Contrabass Clarinet
Dungarees Overall
Infinite Woodwinds is, and I don't say it lightly, a game changer for me. The expressivity is top notch, the library is lightweight, and the tone is 90% there - and I don't mean that all instruments are 90% convincing: some are solid 100% for me, others not so much. So there's plenty to write convincing stuff! I've been able to write this little snippet (see attached) that no other library that I know of could make come to life. Expressivity makes it possible to make a track more convicing than with a classic sample library. It's all about the suspension of disbelief (second time I use this expression here today).
The downside of that is that your tracks will only sound as good as you can make them. I know, it's a bit of a tautology, but bear with me: if you play an arc patch from a regular sample library, you play back an expressive note, which is recorded from an experienced player in a great room, and it will sound good. None of that easy stuff with IW: you're the player. Don't be happy with a first take, don't use the default patches and mixes, don't use the built-in vibrato settings: your tracks deserve better. You can make them sound just the way they should sound, but you have to put in the work, use your ears, your concert memories and what you know from an actual woodwind section. It will be worth it. And I say that without having applied all of that to my demonstration track, so a V2 (EDIT: V3) should happen.
When I write music with a library, I usually like playing to the samples, and I got decent at that. But here, what to do? No legato crossfades, no sample sticking out, no release issue? That allows me to focus on the music, in a very different state of mind: what IW does well, it does amazingly. And for the rest, I just won't go there. It's like an on/off switch: either I can use it for I want, or I just won't. There's no bending the hard parts. For example: I love the bass clarinet, and I feel like I can make anything I want with it. But I don't like the soprano saxophone, and there's probably not much I would do with it that would satisfy me. It's a difficult thing to explain, and I hadn't read about it before.
I feel like most of the users here are placing the instruments in the bigger spaces, but I find even more impressive what can be done with the Studio IR. This is an absolute jewel for intimate music, and definitely the context for which I would recommend IW the most.
In my opinion, it is not a one-ends-all library, but we are so, so darn close to that.
Aaron has made it clear that he has great plans for the whole series, and a desire to refine it to make it the ultimate weapon - I can't wait to see what you have in mind
And the fact that you have achieved so much on your own is absolutely mind-blowing to me!In the meantime, I'm really, really pleased with I have so far.
Well, almost.
Because, well, you know, there's Infinite Brass, and I don't have that.
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