mybadmemory
Senior Member
How many colors can it display?
POLL: 100mm or 60mm for CC control over scoring libraries?(edit w/ photo on page 2)
- Thread starter companyofquail
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companyofquail
Active Member
the led button can display three colors
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companyofquail
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el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
Looks great! Any thoughts on approximate price?
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companyofquail
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I will feel more comfortable on giving this after I have the details worked out on the case.
el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
Understandable. At the moment I'm doing fine with my Akai MIDIMIX, though I can definitely imagine at some point being good enough to appreciate the extra resolution and throw of the unit you're planning.
Will keep watching the thread. Thanks!
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companyofquail
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There will also be a two fader version that will send cc11 and cc1. if you find you need more faders you can buy the larger unit, plug the small unit into the larger unit, and the small unit can be programmed from the larger unit. I feel like there are a lot of people that could get by with just the 2 fader model. I’m still working out the details on how I want that one to be and work out. Should have more answers In a week or two once we get the new prototype boards in.
el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
Thanks for the detailed answer.
In terms of actual live performance, two faders is fine. It's a shame that they're locked to either of two combinations, though. Would be great to be able to make a first pass with #11 & #1, then be able to assign the faders to any other parameter for further automation.
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companyofquail
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this is actually part of what i am working out. i may use a button to select between 2 or 3 pages of standard CC values and just let the user handle the midi learn function on their end. unfortunately i have not come up with a clever way of making the thing compact, affordable, high quality, AND USER PROGRAMABLE. i like the idea of putting a single button on there and in standalone mode it just toggles between 2 pages (CC11 / CC1 and CC21 / CC19). with spitfire stuff this would work right out of the box for modulation/dynamics and vibrato/reverb then allowing the user to just use midi learn on the page 2. would you happen to have any opinions on this?
el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
I don't think there's anything wrong with setting up stuff out of the box, but it seems arbitrary to choose Spitfire over anything else. Pretty sure that there are very few who'd use Spitfire exclusively. Of course, if it's programmable, it's no issue.
How about having a button for each slider that uses different colours for the different pages?(I think you mentioned you could have 3). And then allow MIDI-learn for each of the 3 pages. I don't see why #11 & #1 should necessarily be hard-coded. Why not give users the option to MIDI-learn six distinct CC's, to taste?
Then for MIDI-learn, just hold down either of the buttons until the light flashes (Flashes the same colour as the respective page colour), learn the parameter and one short click to take it back to non-flashing, learnt state.
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companyofquail
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i think i understand what you are requesting, but just to be clear:
when you say "midi learn" on the hardware where are you sending the midi cc from for the hardware faders to learn?
I do not want to create software for the the units as i want them to work as standalone devices using midi output over the usb cable.
unless i am missing something, in order to do this i need to assign a midi cc per fader/per page on the hardware and then the user can use midi learn in their software to control it.
the larger unit has lcd for programming. in order for the smaller unit to have programable feature from the front panel of the hardware i would need to put some kind of lcd on it and i am not sure if i can fit a lcd on there in the footprint i want to keep.
if you do not mind please explain your suggestion from the software and hardware side in a little more detail so that i can make sure i am understanding your request and try to implement it.
el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
Yeah, sorry...Bit of a brain-fart there, regarding the setting up of CC's
While it does look like the screens could fit vertically between faders one and two, maybe it's not worth the stress. Looking again at the footprint for the five faders, it seems small enough to not be much of a size concern. The only concern is the cost. If a two-fader version would be dramatically cheaper (especially given lack of screens) then there definitely could be a market.
Of course, it might be worthwhile still providing a software editor (Consider open-source, for longevity's sake). Then keep the first page hard-coded. That way the user doesn't have to MIDI-learn every plugin they have. They can just use the software to set, save presets and 'flash' the hardware. If at any point the software fails to work, at least #11 & #1 will be hard-coded to page 1, and whatever numbers had been flashed to the hardware could then still be learnt at a plugin level. Best of both worlds.
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companyofquail
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the screens may fit between the faders vertically and that is what i am talking to my board layout guy about. the only issue is those pesky chips and resistors needing to go there too! hahaah. thank you very much for your time and input. i really do appreciate it and hopefully i will be able to get some of the things we have discussed into the final product.Yeah, sorry...Bit of a brain-fart there, regarding the setting up of CC's
While it does look like the screens could fit vertically between faders one and two, maybe it's not worth the stress. Looking again at the footprint for the five faders, it seems small enough to not be much of a size concern. The only concern is the cost. If a two-fader version would be dramatically cheaper (especially given lack of screens) then there definitely could be a market.
Of course, it might be worthwhile still providing a software editor (Consider open-source, for longevity's sake). Then keep the first page hard-coded. That way the user doesn't have to MIDI-learn every plugin they have. They can just use the software to set, save presets and 'flash' the hardware. If at any point the software fails to work, at least #11 & #1 will be hard-coded to page 1, and whatever numbers had been flashed to the hardware could then still be learnt at a plugin level. Best of both worlds.
the price issue is mostly in the design of the box.
if i put parts on the back of the pcb and it makes the box deeper then i have to go up to a thicker piece of metal which includes two costs; 1)the extra cost of the thickness of aluminum bar stock, and 2) machine removing said extra material. this may not be as bad as i am assuming it could be but with that many things to change its gonna take a few conversations with a couple of different people to really nail it down.
el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
But again, if you add a simple, tiny, open-source app-let to the equation, you can easily differentiate the two units, giving them both their distinct value. If the 5-fader unit can be controlled onboard as well as with software, then it would be much easier to make the case for a much cheaper 2-fader (non-screen) software-only version.
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companyofquail
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i will definitely take this under advisement. i actually designed a custom midi controller for a client and we went with a web browser editor that could send it sysex. maybe we can monkey around with that idea and make it work in the context of this device. thanks again for your input! it really helps when i can chat with people about these ideas.
el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
Anything that means you'd have to spend no time worrying about updating software would probably work.
For me, it's all about the price. But then I wouldn't recommend using me as a realistic target market.
Did you manage to see the other thread about fader-controllers, from a designer selling on etsy?
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companyofquail
Active Member
yes i have seen that, and while i am glad that something like that exists and is available as a cost friendly alternative, i am more interested in hitting somewhere in price between what they are doing and what monogram are doing. but being physically nicer(or at least more sturdy/rugged). the case will be machined out of solid piece of aluminum and the buttons and faders are of high quality.
at the end of the day i am mostly trying to make something that i would use and be proud of. then try and figure out if there is anything i can do to it that would stay within my design parameters to make it useful to a few more people as well. that is why i appreciate your(and others) input so much.
el-bo
When life gives you lemons, swap 'em for mangos
I understand what you're going for. Unfortunately, the price-point puts me out of your potential market. I don't think I'm representative of this forum in that, however, and I'm sure you'll have a captive audience.
I wish you all the best
mybadmemory
Senior Member
Just an idea for the two-fader unit. Let's say you have two buttons, one above each fader. By pressing them you could toggle between three banks of two faders for a total of six. The color of the buttons could show which bank you're on. If you want to program a fader you hold the button above that fader until it starts to blink. You then set the CC value you want it to have with the slider, relying on your DAW instead of the unit itself to see this number.
Most DAW's clearly show incoming CC values somehere, so let's say you always temporarily send this "setter-value" as CC1 so the daw would see it as modulation and display whatever value between between 1-127 your slider is on in it's midi-in display. And you then use this value to set the new CC for that fader. Not sure if it's possible but it would be just as handy I think, and you wouldn't need the displays.
Most DAW's clearly show incoming CC values somehere, so let's say you always temporarily send this "setter-value" as CC1 so the daw would see it as modulation and display whatever value between between 1-127 your slider is on in it's midi-in display. And you then use this value to set the new CC for that fader. Not sure if it's possible but it would be just as handy I think, and you wouldn't need the displays.
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companyofquail
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this is totally possible and i have thought about this but i dismissed it because i was unsure how many daw could display midi easily. this idea came about because of things like midi ox, pocket midi, and midiview but i didnt want people to have to rely on that. now that i am able to step back a little and look at the project from the 2 fader version instead of the 5 fader version this makes a little more sense.Just an idea for the two-fader unit. Let's say you have two buttons, one above each fader. By pressing them you could toggle between three banks of two faders for a total of six. The color of the buttons could show which bank you're on. If you want to program a fader you hold the button above that fader until it starts to blink. You then set the CC value you want it to have with the slider, relying on your DAW instead of the unit itself to see this number.
Most DAW's clearly show incoming CC values somehere, so let's say you always temporarily send this "setter-value" as CC1 so the daw would see it as modulation and display whatever value between between 1-127 your slider is on in it's midi-in display. And you then use this value to set the new CC for that fader. Not sure if it's possible but it would be just as handy I think, and you wouldn't need the displays.
would you mind to give me a list of daws you know of that can display this midi data easily?
