Spitfire Westworld - Winner Announced!

[Michael Stibor]

Matter of fact, I’m amazed sometimes by the lack of talent in some of the composers repped by huge agents given others can’t get representation that are substantially more talented. It’s all a game of luck

I'm not sure I agree with this. Luck can be a factor, but I often see a lot good musicians making bad business decisions. The first one being that many composers feel like talent is enough.

"I'll just keep working on my craft, become amazing, and people won't be able to deny my talent, and the film industry will be banging down my door in order to get me to work with them!". Sadly, not the case.

In your example, you're saying that less talented composers often have representation that more talented composers do not. Well, if we take talent out of the equation, what other factors might have contributed to that? Was the less talented composer more structured in their business approach? Was he/she more persistent in contacting the right people? Was their attitude better, and have better interpersonal skills? Was he/she more adaptable in their approach to scoring, and willing to make more concessions with their music that maybe others were not? Just something for everyone to consider.

I'm sorry to use your innocent comment as a means to rant. I just feel that I see this type of thought process all the time. In any other line of business outside of the arts, no one would get very far assuming that everything is luck.

To be a working professional, there needs to be two sides to every composer. The talented artist, and the savvy businessman.

 

[NoOneKnowsAnything]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Luck can be a factor, but I often see a lot good musicians making bad business decisions. The first one being that many composers feel like talent is enough.

"I'll just keep working on my craft, become amazing, and people won't be able to deny my talent, and the film industry will be banging down my door in order to get me to work with them!". Sadly, not the case.

In your example, you're saying that less talented composers often have representation that more talented composers do not. Well, if we take talent out of the equation, what other factors might have contributed to that? Was the less talented composer more structured in their business approach? Was he/she more persistent in contacting the right people? Was their attitude better, and have better interpersonal skills? Was he/she more adaptable in their approach to scoring, and willing to make more concessions with their music that maybe others were not? Just something for everyone to consider.

I'm sorry to use your innocent comment as a means to rant. I just feel that I see this type of thought process all the time. In any other line of business outside of the arts, no one would get very far assuming that everything is luck.

To be a working professional, there needs to be two sides to every composer. The talented artist, and the savvy businessman.

Sometimes it’s about connections, who you know, maybe they have a family member in the biz for example. Other times it’s about personal taste as many reps like someone’s talent who IMHO I don’t think they are particularly good. It’s not about being organized or improving one’s craft, those things are givens. It’s false to assume the most talented people become the most successful, that’s false in every industry. Yes, there are talented people who succeed, but having talent does not mean you will. It’s a given that one must work hard, be persistent, be collaborative, etc... Sometimes some composers get agents merely because they graduated from a specific college, though that alone won’t always work as too many people graduate top colleges and music schools every year. Though if one graduates with an MFA in acting from Yale you will get a major agent 100% of the time. I can’t explain why some of the people I’ve met have succeeded while others who are way more talented have not, but luck seems to be the main culprit.

 

[Michael Stibor]

Sometimes it’s about connections, who you know, maybe they have a family member in the biz for example. Other times it’s about personal taste as many reps like someone’s talent who IMHO I don’t think they are particularly good. It’s not about being organized or improving one’s craft, those things are givens. It’s false to assume the most talented people become the most successful, that’s false in every industry. Yes, there are talented people who succeed, but having talent does not mean you will. It’s a given that one must work hard, be persistent, be collaborative, etc... Sometimes some composers get agents merely because they graduated from a specific college, though that alone won’t always work as too many people graduate top colleges and music schools every year. Though if one graduates with an MFA in acting from Yale you will get a major agent 100% of the time. I can’t explain why some of the people I’ve met have succeeded while others who are way more talented have not, but luck seems to be the main culprit.

Sure connections and personal taste can be a factor. Luck too. I’m not disputing that.
Im just saying I see a lot of musicians assume that they have no control over their careers. Theres no guarantees in any business, but composers have more control than they think. That’s all.

 

[SzPeti42]

Sometimes it can even be political (in my country), which is kind of similar to nepotism, just with an extra layer of "fun".

Now, can I have a musical inquiry in this topic related to the competition in general?
Has anybody come across or written entries that utilized low woodwinds in any capacity that's characteristically audible? If so, I would love to hear those (yes, apparently I haven't had enough even after 500 ).
The only entries I've heard with any kind of woodwinds present were usually those operating in some kind-of classical writing style like Oleg Troyanovsky's runner up waltz.
But even if there was some in the entries, it was mostly covered up by the low brass so I don't remember anything specific. I've been finding myself really enjoying the sound of low woodwinds lately.

 

[Tom Haniff]

Sometimes it can even be political (in my country), which is kind of similar to nepotism, just with an extra layer of "fun".

Now, can I have a musical inquiry in this topic related to the competition in general?
Has anybody come across or written entries that utilized low woodwinds in any capacity that's characteristically audible? If so, I would love to hear those (yes, apparently I haven't had enough even after 500 ).
The only entries I've heard with any kind of woodwinds present were usually those operating in some kind-of classical writing style like Oleg Troyanovsky's runner up waltz.
But even if there was some in the entries, it was mostly covered up by the low brass so I don't remember anything specific. I've been finding myself really enjoying the sound of low woodwinds lately.

This is an interesting question. I listened to many entries but do not remember hearing any low woodwinds specifically. Personally, I used bassoon and contrabassoon, but mainly reinforcing the low brass. Otherwise, I have about 10 seconds of naked woodwinds near the intro, supported by horns, in a 1950s melodrama pastiche. And later, some doubling flutes to add 'zing' to string/trumpet stabs.

I do absolutely love the bass clarinet..

 

[SzPeti42]

This is an interesting question. I listened to many entries but do not remember hearing any low woodwinds specifically. Personally, I used bassoon and contrabassoon, but mainly reinforcing the low brass. Otherwise, I have about 10 seconds of naked woodwinds near the intro, supported by horns, in a 1950s melodrama pastiche. And later, some doubling flutes to add 'zing' to string/trumpet stabs.

I do absolutely love the bass clarinet..

Oh yes, I remember that, I loved your entry, the added processing in the beginning to even have that characteristic 50s "effect" made me instantly smile And the transition between that and the modern sound was pretty cool. Striking, but in a good way.

 

[Loïc D]

Nice broad palette of timbres. Loved the first bike motif! I liked it!

Thanks my friend !
I can’t write anything without putting bass & guitars somehow

 

[Keith Theodosiou]

I have been composing since i was about 17. I have come close to the music business on a few occations but for some reason didn't pan out for me.
Yes heartache as most composers strive to make it somehow in that business.
Now, i too am an old fart lol and now, i don't kid myself that i'm ever going to make it.
I am very happy with the music i compose now. It is not brilliant, it is not very technical but i get by.

My main goal has always been just for people to listen to and hopefully enjoy my music. That is what all composers really want. To have their music liked.

Entering competions is a great way to get your music heard and that's all it should be.
I have only ever been a runner up in a competion once and that was in the 80's, Midge Ure was one of the judges. I won an autographed copy of Ultravox's The Collection by the band.
To me, i had won. Not only did my music get heard but as a bonus, i got a prize too.

I wasn't expecting that so it was a great surprise and i am sure @David Kudell felt the same as the winner.

All the people that are bitching, did they REALLY expect to win?

Just upload your music and hope that people like what you created.

My entry has 215 views and 17 comments, all good and i am happy with that. People liked what i did.
I had 15 likes and 1 dislike. What's that all about? When i listen to another composers music, if i like it, i always thumbs up and comment on the piece. If i don't like it (which is not often) i don't comment and I NEVER leave a thumbs down.
Why do that? Is it cos they think the judges won't pick a piece or even look at a piece if it has a thumbs down. Is that what they do, go on every entrant and give a thumbs down? Sick people, that really winds me up.

Music for me is passion, i love it, i can't stop creating it, it is an addiction but most of all, i am greatfull that i have that addiction.

As far as cometitions go, just enter and enjoy the process.

As far as this competition goes, to all of us that didn't win or be a runner up....

This is not the competition you where looking for...
You may go about your business....
Move along....Move along!

As an afterthought, there are only two pieces of music that have ever brought tears to my eyes.
One is The 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky
The other is

Chevaliers de Sangreal by Hans Zimmer

That is when you know you have touched someone's soul!

 

[NoOneKnowsAnything]

Sure connections and personal taste can be a factor. Luck too. I’m not disputing that.
Im just saying I see a lot of musicians assume that they have no control over their careers. Theres no guarantees in any business, but composers have more control than they think. That’s all.

No they don’t. Control is an illusion in life regarding almost everything.

 

[Kirk1701]

Hi, I am an old fart. But I haven’t lost the passion of writing scores or inventing new sounds and bits of technology for my music. But I so agree with everything I’ve read in your post above. The road of rejection teaches you nothing. It makes you hard and cynical - the antithesis to music. Nor does too much applause. I’ve got my Oscar. It didn’t make me a better composer, or change my career. Just for one night I could be insane and giddy and think it was all relevant. it was fun, but that’s it. ...who can even remember who won for what last year or the year before?

I know everyone involved with the competition - not the composers, but I’m old enough to have worked for J.J.‘s father, and actually done a film with him. And we’re both synth geeks. Ramin really got his start with me, and met the Nolan’s through our working together - which - through his enormous talent - led directly to “Westworld”. The “Spitfire” guys I consider as personal friends and more than once have we helped each other out. ...so, why am I writing this? Just to name -drop? No, actually I secretly stayed away from listening to anything that was being submitted. I thought - once the dust settles, there will be an amazing amount of music and talent that should be recognized and given an opportunity at furthering their careers. I’ve done that a lot. I don’t think that Harry G-H, or John Powell, Lorne Balfe or JunkieXL and Ben Wallfisch - as just a few examples, will think of me holding them back in forging their careers. Our whole ”Blue Planet” and all the other things ‘Bleeding Fingers’ does comes from the idea that there is an unbelievable pool of talent out there that should be given a chance.

But then I started to read the comments and the bitterness and bitchyness in most of the responses to the winner (whom I’ve never met or heard off). And I thought, why even bother with this lot. They’ve already lost. They think music is a business when it’s a passion, they forget that putting hours or days in, is a luxury you’ll never have again when you’re on a deadline on a ‘proper’ job...
but, mostly, it’s the lack of respect for someone’s moment of joy - where they should be celebrated - that got me.

so - carry on with your uninformed small minded criticism. it’s all here now in black and white for ever. The beauty of the internet. And as a reference of how i wouldn’t ever want to work with a single one of you. Nor you with me. Bad fit. It doesn’t even ever matter how good your music is or how smart you are... And since music and film-making are inherently collaborative, I can’t really see how any director will want to deal with that amount of entitlement and hubris.
hz

I honestly hope HZ isn’t referring to any of my posts as "bitchy."

My background is the theatre. When I direct a play or indie film, I do not "hire" any production people who are lazy, argumentative, intractable, or gossips. It's a hard thing to say, but collaboration is the name of the game. If you aren't malleable enough to be molded into the project, I can't use you. And I'm a complete nobody.

The story/project dictates everybody's task, including the writer and director. You have to be porous enough to allow the story through the coral that is your creativity.

 

[Michael Stibor]

No they don’t. Control is an illusion in life regarding almost everything.

Oh ok then. Sounds a little too philosophical for my feeble mind.

 

[Tom Haniff]

Oh yes, I remember that, I loved your entry, the added processing in the beginning to even have that characteristic 50s "effect" made me instantly smile And the transition between that and the modern sound was pretty cool. Striking, but in a good way.

That's very kind. Thank you!

 

[Lukegilson]

I'm actually really glad that a chip tune song won. It was incredibly interesting, I heard various video game themes that I haven't heard in years. SO much nostalgia. There was sonic the hedgehog music from the sega version, mario coins, the whole nine! Sometimes it's hard for normal folk like me to appreciate the genius behind this piece, it took a few passes to really appreciate the nuances. Once you actually focus in on the sounds and think "why are they there?" it all starts to come together. Genius storing telling, kudos!

I can't wait to see what comes from David in the future. Congrats, and everyone have a good one

 

[MartinH.]

I had 15 likes and 1 dislike. What's that all about? When i listen to another composers music, if i like it, i always thumbs up and comment on the piece. If i don't like it (which is not often) i don't comment and I NEVER leave a thumbs down.
Why do that? Is it cos they think the judges won't pick a piece or even look at a piece if it has a thumbs down. Is that what they do, go on every entrant and give a thumbs down? Sick people, that really winds me up.

 

[NoOneKnowsAnything]

Oh ok then. Sounds a little too philosophical for my feeble mind.

I’ll explain it more simply. Spend your life not drinking and not smoking and not doing drugs and you exercise regularly and are a positive upbeat person. Then out of no where at a young age you get a brain tumor and die 8 months later. How did your control mean anything?

Or, you are a hard working person and always do right by others, you are big hearted and generous and thoughtful and always put in extra hours to get the job done. As you drive home one night a drunk driver veers over the yellow line and hits you head on killing you instantly. How did all your control help you when none of us can stop that from happening?

I could go on and on about true stories.

 

[Alex Niedt]

I’ll explain it more simply. Spend your life not drinking and not smoking and not doing drugs and you exercise regularly and are a positive upbeat person. Then out of no where at a young age you get a brain tumor and die 8 months later. How did your control mean anything?

Or, you are a hard working person and always do right by others, you are big hearted and generous and thoughtful and always put in extra hours to get the job done. As you drive home one night a drunk driver veers over the yellow line and hits you head on killing you instantly. How did all your control help you when none of us can stop that from happening?

I could go on and on about true stories.

Nothing in life is a guarantee, but living the way you've detailed certainly increases your likelihood for good health and success, so it is indeed a form of control. To dismiss it because of the possibility of random catastrophe is insanely defeatist.

 

[jononotbono]

Nothing in life is a guarantee

Im not sure about that. It’s definitely a guarantee I’m going to be buying a new Spitfire sample library soon.

 

[Michael Stibor]

I’ll explain it more simply. Spend your life not drinking and not smoking and not doing drugs and you exercise regularly and are a positive upbeat person. Then out of no where at a young age you get a brain tumor and die 8 months later. How did your control mean anything?

Or, you are a hard working person and always do right by others, you are big hearted and generous and thoughtful and always put in extra hours to get the job done. As you drive home one night a drunk driver veers over the yellow line and hits you head on killing you instantly. How did all your control help you when none of us can stop that from happening?

I could go on and on about true stories.

Ok, then I did get it. I just don’t agree with that mentality. And before we get off track, I said more control of your career, not complete control.

 

[NoOneKnowsAnything]

Ok, then I did get it. I just don’t agree with that mentality. And before we get off track, I said more control of your career, not complete control.

I agree with you, Michael, that we should all do our best and try to control what we can, but being in this biz for over 30 years has taught me personally that my talent, hard work, determination, charisma, positivity, magnanimity, devotion, persistence, collaborative zeal, passion and sincerity seem to mean nothing in that I can’t make success unfold when I want it to or when I’ve worked long and hard to get it to appear. It appears when it wants to despite anything I do. In my life, I get when I stop reaching for the metaphoric Apple in my life and not when I’m focused with a plan and actional. Yes, one has to put one self out there and be as trained, poised, practiced and prepared as possible, but there is not the structure to becoming a composer like there is in most industries so unless you are an A-list composer’s apprentice, which is extremely hard to secure, there is no reliable path to build your career. It’s more like diving for pirate treasure, which is ridiculously challenging to succeed at.

 

[NoOneKnowsAnything]

Nothing in life is a guarantee, but living the way you've detailed certainly increases your likelihood for good health and success, so it is indeed a form of control. To dismiss it because of the possibility of random catastrophe is insanely defeatist.

Alex, I do agree with you that ideally we must try our best and control what we can which I have always done. It just seems like all my efforts rarely bear fruit no matter how much I try, prepare, do. I’m not defeatist, I’m simply aware of what has transpired.