Why aren't more folks talking about Notion?

[mventura]

I see a lot of talk about Dorico, Sibelius, and Finale but I rarely heard folks talk about Notion. While Notion is not as sophisticated as other notation software for detailed engraving it does solve the need I hear most folks talk about: the need to work with notes on a staff. Also Notion is super easy to synch with sample libraries. It has a rule based UI that essential creates an XMl custom rule file that you can "plug" into any staff to trigger keyswitches based on the score (e.g., articulations, techniques). You can even create custom text-based articulations or techniques to trigger keyswitches (I created a Doit label that I put on notes to trigger Doit in Project Sam Swing). It is awesome for working with any library that uses keyswitches. And Notion comes with custom rules for all VSL SE and many East West libraries.

It also has velocity and duration controls for individual notes to you can also tweak while staying in the notation view (love the way they implemented this feature).

The only request I have for Notion is they need to allow additional CC control for notes. For example I can not draw a vibrato curve for a note in Notion. This is the most requested feature on the Notion forum. Although hairpins always work fine for controlling dynamics (and can be assigned to control other CCs like vibrato).

Curious why folks are not using it more. Its just $200 and includes a decent 8Gb full orchestral plus rock band sketching library. Are there other limitations Notion has vs. a DAW that I am just missing?

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[MatFluor]

I used Notion before I got Sibelius and Overture.

It's a great Notation software, intuitive, reasonable engraving quality. The reason I don't use it as much anymore is that I put a ton of annotation inside the score, and use it mainly for sketching rather then a full score (or maybe a single performer).
I often write in the score what I'm doing, especially since I write in condensed score (3-4 staves), so I write orchestrational notes or the like on it - and Notion can't do that. The other thing is exchanging scores with other people who also need those annotations - Sibelius is better in that regard.

 

[Dewdman42]

I think notion best competes against overture5+Amadeus expansion. I prefer notion between the two because it’s more reliable, sounds better with the factory sounds and is supported by a MUCH larger company. Overture can produce better looking scores then notion so if you’re going to make printouts for players you might care about that more and overture is definitely better then notion in that regard

 

[mventura]

I think notion best competes against overture5+Amadeus expansion. I prefer notion between the two because it’s more reliable, sounds better with the factory sounds and is supported by a MUCH larger company. Overture can produce better looking scores then notion so if you’re going to make printouts for players you might care about that more and overture is definitely better then notion in that regard

I do see that Overture 5 allows drawing CC curves for notes. I'll keep it on my radar. I hope many of the reliability issues I have read about in Overture will be resolved in the next update.

There also are rumors that Presonus will integrate Notion into Studio One. I assume that would solve the CC curve problem.

 

[thesteelydane]

The main reason I stopped using it is it’s infuriating way of shifting notes forward in time if you delete any note in a bar. All other notation programs replace a deleted note with a rest, heck, even pen and paper, or a midi piano roll for that matter, leaves all other things in place, but Notion doesn’t. I don’t know why I find that so infuriating, I just know it messed up my workflow. It’s so incredibly counterintuitive in that one regard.

 

[Craig Duke]

I own Notion and like many things about it. I don't like the keyswitching rules approach, though it was better than when we had nothing. Lack of CC control is a big issue to me and many as well. I gave up expecting Presonus to incorporate the feature after their so-called integration of Notion and Studio One.

I prefer Overture keyswitching/articulations approach (more immediate, more definable, and all around a better design of the functionality) and, of course, it has graphic CC control.

 

[mventura]

The main reason I stopped using it is it’s infuriating way of shifting notes forward in time if you delete any note in a bar. All other notation programs replace a deleted note with a rest, heck, even pen and paper, or a midi piano roll for that matter, leaves all other things in place, but Notion doesn’t. I don’t know why I find that so infuriating, I just know it messed up my workflow. It’s so incredibly counterintuitive in that one regard.

I guess that's a matter of taste. I actually prefer it this way. What if you actually want the note (and the rest) deleted? If you want a rest in place of the note just write one over the note.

 

[mventura]

I own Notion and like many things about it. I don't like the keyswitching rules approach, though it was better than when we had nothing. Lack of CC control is a big issue to me and many as well. I gave up expecting Presonus to incorporate the feature after their so-called integration of Notion and Studio One.

I prefer Overture keyswitching/articulations approach (more immediate, more definable, and all around a better design of the functionality) and, of course, it has graphic CC control.

Can you explain the Overture keyswitching/articulations approach? Thanks.

 

[JJP]

It's not as robust notation software as Finale or Sibelius. For professional work it lacks numerous features.

 

[mventura]

It's not as robust notation software as Finale or Sibelius. For professional work it lacks numerous features.

Yes quite correct on the engraving quality. But that aside why would I need a DAW over Notion (besides CC curve editing)? Also Notion has midi record and video integration. I am not trying to defend Notion I just want to know what I am missing out on.

 

[JJP]

Notation programs and DAWs are different tools for different jobs. Notation programs are optimized for putting notation on a page. DAWs are made to create and edit audio recordings. Which tool is right for you depends on your ultimate goal.

A DAW will have far more robust MIDI and audio features than any notation program. Likewise, a notation program will be much more effective at producing good printed output.

There is not yet a single program that can do both with the features and efficiency required for professionals in both areas.

For non-professional use, you may be able to get by with one or the other for both jobs depending on your needs.

 

[mventura]

Notation programs and DAWs are different tools for different jobs. Notation programs are optimized for putting notation on a page. DAWs are made to create and edit audio recordings. Which tool is right for you depends on your ultimate goal.

A DAW will have far more robust MIDI and audio features than any notation program. Likewise, a notation program will be much more effective at producing good printed output.

There is not yet a single program that can do both with the features and efficiency required for professionals in both areas.

For non-professional use, you may be able to get by with one or the other for both jobs depending on your needs.

Can you explain what other midi features a typical DAW has over Notion (besides CC curves which I know is a big deal)? It seems a lot of folks are using DAWs just for midi composition (who want to write via staff) and I am not really sure why they are using them instead of Notion (since it can easily use any VI). Notion can also support up to 4 audio plugin VSTs per track (reverb, etc). The mixer also has 8 buses, send functionality, panning, etc.

 

[JJP]

The additional functions of a DAW are related to editing MIDI and audio data and producing more nuanced playback and output. They also allow things like complex manipulation of MIDI and audio data and more complex efficient routing for different effects and processing.

If none of this makes sense to you, or you can't understand why you'd need it, then Notion is probably meeting all your needs. That's great. Keep working with what you have!

 

[JT]

I got a free copy of Notion a few years ago and gave it a try. If it works for you, great!

For me, it was like a jack of all trades, but master of none. It didn't handle notation as well as Finale and Sibelius, and it wasn't a full featured DAW like Cubase, Logic, etc... And the other reason, nobody's ever hired me and said can you do this in Notion? It's usually Finale, if not then Sibelius.

Good luck!

 

[rrichard63]

... nobody's ever hired me and said can you do this in Notion? It's usually Finale, if not then Sibelius.

I'm glad someone brought this up. As a hobbyist I don't need to care what formats clients might ask for. But it's critical for a lot of professionals. Same story with DAWs. How many folks use Pro Tools mainly because clients demand stems in that format?

I chose Notion for myself, mainly because of the links to Studio One, but also because I don't have to deliver scores to clients and because my engraving needs are fairly basic.

 

[thesteelydane]

I guess that's a matter of taste. I actually prefer it this way. What if you actually want the note (and the rest) deleted? If you want a rest in place of the note just write one over the note.

If I want something deleted, it doesn’t mean I also want what follows it to move forward in time. It makes no musical sense.

 

[Craig Duke]

Can you explain the Overture keyswitching/articulations approach? Thanks.

I'll do my best. These are the basics.

Imagine you have a score in front of you and you add a staccato to a note. Click on the staccato you just added and an Edit Articulation window pops up.





IN the lower right hand corner you select "keyswitching" and choose your note. In this example, I have defined staccato to F#0. If you use Spitfire UACC (which I use) you would set "Controller" to 32 and "Value" to 42 for staccato. In the lower left you can indicate that this definition is for the staff, the entire score, or neither (only applies to this one instance of the articulation).

Most of the parameters are fairly obvious. "End of Note" allows you to define what keyswitching occurs, if any, after the note is played since articulations only apply to a note. I usually set this to a long sample.

If you have a library with multiple staccato samples and want to use another sample for a few notes, click on the note's staccato and change the keyswitching, but do not check a box in the lower left. It will only apply to that note.

These are the choices for expressions but you can also add your own customs expressions with the "Insert" button. I could never figure how to add a new expression in Notion Rules. With custom expressions you can control any CC parameter by adding the custom defined expression to a score. This is not the main way of controlling CC data in Overture though.



Expressions have a definition window similar to articulations.

I will often want to hear different samples on a series of notes and audition them. To do this I click on the expression and change the keyswitching attribute right from the score view, play, then change again. In short, you can change on the fly.

The other thing to know is how to save. What I did was define all of the articulations and expressions (well not all) on a staff. Then delete all of the notes on the staff and save it to "User Define" in the Instrument Panel (not shown here). This panel is where you drag over instruments/staves onto a score. I then us that staff to build a template and save the template. Spitfire UACC makes this easy because of their consistent definitions but for other libraries I would image one would save a defined staff per section (VSL Strings) or per instrument. It depends on how consistent the company is in their keyswitching values. You only have to do it once though.

If some of this isn't clear, feel free to ask.

Craig

 

[mventura]

I'll do my best. These are the basics.

Imagine you have a score in front of you and you add a staccato to a note. Click on the staccato you just added and an Edit Articulation window pops up.





IN the lower right hand corner you select "keyswitching" and choose your note. In this example, I have defined staccato to F#0. If you use Spitfire UACC (which I use) you would set "Controller" to 32 and "Value" to 42 for staccato. In the lower left you can indicate that this definition is for the staff, the entire score, or neither (only applies to this one instance of the articulation).

Most of the parameters are fairly obvious. "End of Note" allows you to define what keyswitching occurs, if any, after the note is played since articulations only apply to a note. I usually set this to a long sample.

If you have a library with multiple staccato samples and want to use another sample for a few notes, click on the note's staccato and change the keyswitching, but do not check a box in the lower left. It will only apply to that note.

These are the choices for expressions but you can also add your own customs expressions with the "Insert" button. I could never figure how to add a new expression in Notion Rules. With custom expressions you can control any CC parameter by adding the custom defined expression to a score. This is not the main way of controlling CC data in Overture though.



Expressions have a definition window similar to articulations.

I will often want to hear different samples on a series of notes and audition them. To do this I click on the expression and change the keyswitching attribute right from the score view, play, then change again. In short, you can change on the fly.

The other thing to know is how to save. What I did was define all of the articulations and expressions (well not all) on a staff. Then delete all of the notes on the staff and save it to "User Define" in the Instrument Panel (not shown here). This panel is where you drag over instruments/staves onto a score. I then us that staff to build a template and save the template. Spitfire UACC makes this easy because of their consistent definitions but for other libraries I would image one would save a defined staff per section (VSL Strings) or per instrument. It depends on how consistent the company is in their keyswitching values. You only have to do it once though.

If some of this isn't clear, feel free to ask.

Craig

Wow! Thanks Craig! This is very easy!

I see I can get a cross-grade discount to Overture 5.5 from Notion. Would you say its worth exploring? I also am kinda curious about Amadeus. Is it better than the base library in Notion?

To add custom expressions in Notion you have to edit the source XML expression file which is kinda a PITA (find expression references in large file and then change it in multiple places and then need to call it in Notion via only a hot key combination ).

 

[Craig Duke]

Wow! Thanks Craig! This is very easy!

mventura, I see I can get a cross-grade discount to Overture 5.5 from Notion. Would you say its worth exploring? I also am kinda curious about Amadeus. Is it better than the base library in Notion?

To add custom expressions in Notion you have to edit the source XML expression file which is kinda a PITA (find expression references in large file and then change it in multiple places and then need to call it in Notion via only a hot key combination ).

I believe Overture is available in a demo version. You might want to check that out. The interface is quite intuitive and has a good help facility. The company itself is different than most. Less regression testing on new software releases but more releases and continual feature growth. The owner can be a bit gruff but he is very dedicated to the product. Plus and minuses.

This is a what the CC interface looks like. Click a button or Shift-S from the notation view and it changes to this view for whatever track is selected. The lower left is were you select what CC or velocity etc. you want to control. You can play and record from this view or audition notes by clicking them. Select an instrument in the upper left side and the view changes to that track/instrument. Shift-S gets you back to the current position in the notation view. I don't understand why Notion or Dorico aren't doing this and its unclear to me if they are working toward this.


Craig

 

[Vavastrasza]

I use Notion and like it. My main frustrations:

Lack of control curves, especially velocity, although you can edit note by note or play in the velocity with a velocity overdub.

Selectable scales are limited with no facility for custom scales. No harmonic minor, for example.

Single midi input only at a time. I like to play two small keyboards at once rather than one big one. I can do this in Studio One but not Notion.

It's also somewhat unstable (crash-prone), but not as bad as it used to be.