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Trailer music ! But something seems off...

thank you. It's definitely more pleasant to me than the mastered version. Just a couple of (very generical) thoughts on the fly.

I would at first get rid of the high frequencies redundances/sibilances starting with the lead singer. I would scoop the "s" range above 5k or so. Then I would also apply a nice bandpassed reverb on it to get the lead back smoothly into the mix. Once you smoothened out the lead singer I would also tame highs on the hats like sequence in the second half. I love giving shakers and hihats a "taming" treatment using a LP filter (I use a lot Softube Abbey Road). If it was me, I would also try using a more classic hihats sound (more compact and less focused in the white noise area). But that's personal of course.

The strings and horns also have a bit of a sibilant feel to me, I dunno what library you used here but I would smoothen out a bit high mids as well. Perhaps applying also a bit of tape to smoothen out the sound. Small actions.

Keeping the mid/high range under control in my experience helps a lot when you're going to limit/maximize in the mastering (which is most likely for the specific style), as most often limiters and loudness maximizers tend to emphatize the mid/high range in order to raise the perceived loudness, thus creating additional harshness if the mix isn't balanced enough.

Your bass range isn't over emphatized which is a good thing, as it leaves headroom space for some slight low-end ehnancing in the mastering chain, perhaps using a pultec like eq.

One final note about the big percussion in the second half. Sounds definitely dry to me.

Of course these are just generic thoughts on a quick listening, but I bet if you just start limiting/compressing again after balancing mid/highs and getting a few elements back in the mix by reverberation you'll feel more satisfied of the result than you are now.

Please take my generic impressions with a grain of salt, as mixing/mastering is such a complex beast and I'm definitely not Dennis Sands, unfortunately :) .
 
Bingo ! You told everything that is currently freaking me out, since i've started to rework the track, i'm really struggling to get my template to sound closer to Audiomachine's trailers and i can't figure out what is right to do EQ wise with the orchestra (strings mainly CSS, Brass CineBrass). I know that it should be processed by a good amount (it already was for this track, eq ed and saturated and compressed ad nauseum), but that frequency curve on these already released trailer tracks by Audiomachine and others has been haunting me night and day ever since, following mr Crosby post. Anyone have any clue on what Eq and processing would be suitable ?
I've had time to give this a proper listen and compare your latest version to some of AM's references here's what I notice...

EQ-wise...

You have a little bit too much high end above 10k. The high end would work in a track with some risers and noise fx, but without those elements in there you might want to tame the top end above 10k bit. probably just a few dB, and instead of using a LP try a shelf (non-resonant).

There's also a lot of low ringing and/or buildup between 70 and 150 Hz. Sounds like it's a combination of percussion and maybe some synth bass?

Seems like there's a little boxiness around 500-600 Hz. It's mainly the choirs, and or a combination of choirs and voice. Choirs can mask your orchestra, and if you're going for that polished/AM-style sound they tend need some fairly aggressive EQing. Get your orchestra mix sounding really great 1st, then when you add choirs ask yourself it feels like it's fogging up the mix. Start sweeping around 400 and see where it starts to sound really boxy or harsh. It could be boxiness around 500, it could be harshness around 1k or 2k. Choir libraries all have their own quirks, and unless your going for a classical mix you'll probably find yourself needing to be fairly aggressive...

Lux has some great overall advice, that said the one place we differ is the sub. Hopefully this doesn't come across as snippy or snide! Boosting 6 dB (or more) is when a mastering engineer should recommend you fix the mix instead of mastering it as is... With a library this isn't even a question. They simply wouldn't accept it until the mix was sorted out.

One of the libraries I write for has all of their mastering done out of house. Their facility is mastering hundreds of files at a time. Their releases are done as albums, each album has anywhere form 15-50 tracks. Each track also has cut downs, and anywhere from of 8 stems to 12 stems per track.... All of which get mastered... Their albums average 300-400 mastered tracks at a time, a mastering facility doing this kind of volume doesn't have time to do surgical work. (Proper mastering engineers also tend and avoid this scenario in general... It's basically treating a knife wound with a band aid..)

I digress!! ... You're missing a bunch of sub weight below 50 Hz. With a trailer track this is where all of the excitement is, the visceral intensity of the music lives in the sub... It's what makes the booms and bass drops shake your trousers :P A really killer theatre has incredible sub bass, and it's super important to get this area of the mix right. Checking what's going on in the sub with analyzer can make all the difference, especially if you have a hard time working with low end in your room, and/or your headphones have hyped or rolled off low end... I have a great room but I still check to see where things sit... A bunch of rumble at 30 Hz you might not be able to hear can ruin a track from mastering correctly....

Last thing... Seems like there's a some low mid rumble around 200. Acoustic percussion can get get muddy in this area, especially if layering. (There was also a hole in your mix around here... Maybe you cut too much in other instruments instead of the percussion? Not sure...) Either way it's generally a good idea to see what's going on in the low mids with percussion libraries.

Percussion fills the entire spectrum, it has long tails, and when you mix different libraries from different spaces, all of the acoustic issues baked into those reverb tails compounds... I generally check anywhere between 100 and 300. I'll also see if there's any boxiness between 400 and 600. (Lower mids are where most of the issues tend to be...) You don't need to go nuts, but at the same time don't be surprised if every once in a while you find that cutting as much as 6 dB somewhere in the low mid of one or more of your percussion tracks suddenly opens up the mix.

Take all of this with a grain of salt. Not everything needs EQ. The frequency ranges are a ball park, and arrangement and level are the foundation of any mix... Key also plays a big role - different rooms have different modes and resonate at different keys and harmonics...

You'd be surprised just how much of that "produced"/"processed" sound comes mainly from careful EQ choices...

Level wise...

The percussion seems a bit shy. I bet once you clean up some low mud in your percussion you'll find you can push it up in the mix and it doesn't step on the other instruments...



You might want to check Alex Pfeffer's YT channel. He's a great example of just someone who gets a massive sound with a lot less processing than you'd think...

This should give you a great jump off point...

 
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Whoaaa, Justin... I don't know what to say man, this is just incredible to have you giving such a masterclass ! Not sure if deserve it haha, but anyways, this is sooo helpful for anyone reading this thread, i want to say thank you, you're bringing me to a whole new level.

You got me into liking Audiomachine's stuff, i'm listening carefuly to all of their recent trailers, and i'm realizing that i already know how a whole bunch of their sounds are made, that's very promising, i wanna risk things and try to make more "proper" trailer tracks, without sacrificing my love for the more lyrical things though.

I've spent this week trying to get the right tonal balance in my orchestra, it really shines more than ever, i've even invented some new techniques and randomization scripts to get my short strings to play more randomized length of samples, the result is it behaves more like a real string section, it's less boring 😛.

For the Eq side, i've started mixing anew from ground up, and used a lot of multiband as well to have everything under control, i am satisfied so far, and was excited to try my new setup in context, so i've written about a minute and a half of trailer in almost no time, it sounds convincing to me so far 🙏

Getting back to work 😈
 
So, i've been reworking my template from ground up and had the opportunity to get some trailer percs and some other stuff.
I wrote this, following the various advices given in this topic.
It is only 1m30 long, but i am satisfied ;)



What do you think ? :)

PS: (If you are reading this and you are new into Trailer music, don't be shy to share your track)
PS2: (I have no idea if i'm breaking this forum rules by writing the above 😅)
PS3: far better console than ps4 and ps5 😁 thanks to sony for excessive pruning.
 
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So, i've been reworking my template from ground up and had the opportunity to get some trailer percs and some other stuff.
I wrote this, following the various advices given in this topic.
It is only 1m30 long, but i am satisfied ;)



What do you think ? :)

PS: (If you are reading this and you are new into Trailer music, don't be shy to share your track)
PS2: (I have no idea if i'm breaking this forum rules by writing the above 😅)
PS3: far better console than ps4 and ps5 😁 thanks to sony for excessive pruning.

That gave me chills.
Good job (from a person still waiting for kontakt to go on sale, so no experience xD)
Also PS2 is the winner :D
 
Haha, thanks @LordOfTheStrings !
You'll see, when you get Kontakt for the first time, it is an infinite new world opening to you.
Be sure to check a lot of library showcase videos, to find what are the ones the most suitable for the sound and playability you're after, and if you have great taste, everything will be easier 🙂
 
So, i've been reworking my template from ground up and had the opportunity to get some trailer percs and some other stuff.
I wrote this, following the various advices given in this topic.
It is only 1m30 long, but i am satisfied ;)



What do you think ? :)

PS: (If you are reading this and you are new into Trailer music, don't be shy to share your track)
PS2: (I have no idea if i'm breaking this forum rules by writing the above 😅)
PS3: far better console than ps4 and ps5 😁 thanks to sony for excessive pruning.

Huge improvement! The transitions are also solid which is the one other key aspect I didn't touch on in my initial post... It's really important to realize that the single most important audience for your track (at least from a library perspective) is the editor... 1 and 2 bar gaps give the editor/trailer house flexibility in how they can make sections of your track fit a trailer which increases the appeal of a track... Sounding really solid :)
 
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Thank you Justin !
I'll stick more to this model, with gaps making it easier for the editor as you said.
Now i'm going to make 9 more tracks like this one, will send the whole bunch to a lot of people and crossing fingers 😁
Oh BTW, i have another way to know if my music is working these days : when my 9 months old son run in my room with an eager face hands in the air, it's a win 😃
 
So, i've been reworking my template from ground up and had the opportunity to get some trailer percs and some other stuff.
I wrote this, following the various advices given in this topic.
It is only 1m30 long, but i am satisfied ;)



What do you think ? :)

PS: (If you are reading this and you are new into Trailer music, don't be shy to share your track)
PS2: (I have no idea if i'm breaking this forum rules by writing the above 😅)
PS3: far better console than ps4 and ps5 😁 thanks to sony for excessive pruning.

Great track! Do you mind if I ask what libraries you used?
 
@Jacob Fanto Sure !

For strings its a layering between CSS + CSSS + Fluid Shorts
For Brass it's CineBrass Core and Pro, and a Trailer brass patch for low end
Choirs it's complicated as i use almost every librairy available on the market as layers for the main sound
Synths are a mess of Diva, ZebraHZ, Repro 1 and 5, the legend and other analog emulation synths
Percs : almost anything that will do, i even record salt and pepper for shakers, and my voice for signature sounds, or other samples 🙂👍
 
Thank you Justin !
I'll stick more to this model, with gaps making it easier for the editor as you said.
Now i'm going to make 9 more tracks like this one, will send the whole bunch to a lot of people and crossing fingers 😁
Oh BTW, i have another way to know if my music is working these days : when my 9 months old son run in my room with an eager face hands in the air, it's a win 😃
Sorry for not getting back about this. I had a brief that started right around the time this thread kicked off and lost track of the thread...

You're welcome! And I've got to say I'm still impressed how you went from point A to point B in less than a week. You've got the chops for the genre, and more importantly the adaptability. Being able to make big changes in a short time means you can handle a list of revisions, which is key... Even if you faff your way through the 1st brief or two, or they make comments about elements of the mix, it's pretty clear you'd get up to speed quickly...

If you haven't started to reach out to libraries you should whenever you feel ready. :)
 
Thanks again Justin, i promise i'll do reach out to libraries once i'm done writing my tenth Trailer cue, so i can have a good selection and starting point 🙂💯
 
That's a great idea actually. Maybe something like "Trailer music vs trailer influenced music"?
jbuhler: I’ve never seen this expressed so clearly and concisely. It’s really great. You should think about posting a version of this as its own thread.
@jcrosby @jbuhler

Hey guys, just been searching through as I'm looking to gradually change career direction towards library music and trailer music. This thread has been really helpful so thank you for sharing! I wondered if you would still be interested in starting this thread and discussion. I'm mostly interested in music for sports (promos, TV spots and underscore) and trailers for streaming tv services and movies. My background is in composition and music production so I'm not a musical begginer but these are new areas of the industry to me.

I'd love to continue the discussion from above if you're up for it and I have a few questions that I thougtht may help me but also thought could be interesting to look at the differences:


1. Does "trailer influenced music" have a place in music libraries? Are there any good examples of trailer influenced music used in sync?

2. Would you write specifically to target sports promos/trailers?

3. If so obviously besides style and genre would the structure remain the same or could trailer influenced music have a place here?

4. One composer the other day mentioned that they did an entire album of 30 second "trailer" tracks specifically for TV promo. Are there any good examples of this? Could this be worth exploring?

I thought it would be best to post these here instead of starting a new thread straight away.
 
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