What's new

Too AI for your own Good

If you don't have much to lose, I guess it doesn't really matter then?
I think a bigger question would be, what do you lose by using AI for music (or art)?
We all have the soul of humanity to lose. I keep saying this: expressing and experiencing art is a basic human need. There's even new evidence that Neanderthals made art. A machine can't do that.

And no, there will never be AI "art" that's good. It may be interesting, but it's not a substitute. Sex with a blow-up doll has the same result as the real thing (leaving aside pregnancy), but there's no emotional connection.

Artists losing jobs, well, I hate it but don't know if there's any defense against that. Most people will change vocations multiple times during their lives. And that's another reason why training in the arts is so important: it's brain training.

We need to fight like hell to preserve that, or it won't be only art that we lose.
 
Last edited:
Not too worried about ChatGPT. It's a useful tool to get ideas started but there's already another AI tool based on GPT3 that will detect if you're using ChatGPT to cheat.

This is just the opening of an arms race. GPT3 detection is also not generally definitive and it’s hard to bring a case to student judicial services if you can’t do better than say GPT3 says that it is likely this was computer generated.
 
I may try GPT3 on a series of short answer definitional questions of the sort that ChstGPT tends to be good at answering and see if GPT3 can do better than I can at detecting ChatGPT and not getting false positives. The false positive rate has to be extremely low to use for this purpose.
 
I think a bigger question would be, what do you lose by using AI for music (or art)? I have found that a lot of things you need to do them yourself in order to figure out how they work and how to to get better at doing it. There is only so far that reading can get you. Until you actually try the things yourself, only then do you figure out what is required to get it done and only then can you start to figure out what your own unique artistic approach, or "style" actually is. I read a lot of the manuals for the synths I work on. It always looks easy and makes sense when you read the manual. But it only starts to get tricky and difficult to achieve the sounds you want to achieve when you try to apply the things you read about in the manuals.
Agreed, and in a slower time, this is gold and the best advice.

I find more and more, however there is simply so much to be done, that I focus only on what needs attention. So if I can have an AI do the art, instead of spending years learning how to do it myself, or instead of hiring an artist that I don't have the money for, I'll do it. Because it's something that needs doing and checking off a very long, and growing list.

Never in the her-story of the world have people been so busy. It's not normal.
 
Robots are already physically superior to humans many times over. The biggest improvements to come will be in streamlining their form factor, lessening their cost, and a breakthrough in battery technology. Soon after those three things happen, these now-amusing robots will be networked to each other and to AI, which will be a whole new rodeo. Interesting times ahead.

 
And no, there will never be AI "art" that's good.
I agree, (so far) this is true regarding music. I haven't even been slightly impressed by AI music yet. Some cases where AI has written the music and humans have performed it are ..ok.. but still not great. And in those cases the live human performance is elevating the piece.

But how do you explain AI art winning competitions? Honest question, because I have very little background in visual arts. But some, (I'm assuming, qualified, human judges) thought it was good right?
 
I agree, (so far) this is true regarding music. I haven't even been slightly impressed by AI music yet. Some cases where AI has written the music and humans have performed it are ..ok.. but still not great. And in those cases the live human performance is elevating the piece.

But how do you explain AI art winning competitions? Honest question, because I have very little background in visual arts. But some, (I'm assuming, qualified, human judges) thought it was good right?
AI seems to be doing a great job training Synth V voices, which have been improving by leaps and bounds over the last year or so. And AI work in processing plugins has shown some promise as well—though nothing like Synth V.
 
I agree, (so far) this is true regarding music. I haven't even been slightly impressed by AI music yet. Some cases where AI has written the music and humans have performed it are ..ok.. but still not great. And in those cases the live human performance is elevating the piece.

But how do you explain AI art winning competitions? Honest question, because I have very little background in visual arts. But some, (I'm assuming, qualified, human judges) thought it was good right?
The picture that won that competition is absolute garbage, so no, I don't think the judges were qualified.

Again, though, there's no question that AI "art" will fool someone, same with music. It's the cumulative, soul-eating effect that's the problem.
 
I created an account at ChatGPT (which I never heard of before this thread) and asked it a few times to write a song in the style of x about y.

The lyrics were on the level of: "I love you baby, and I don't mean maybe," consistently bad regardless of subject, though no doubt my prompts were poor too. But I could see using it like the way you might flip a coin to decide whether to take a left or a right turn or something. You could catch a rhyme that might spark an idea, similar to the way thumbing through magazine articles can.

this is what I did with my song.

original lyrics written by my friends:

I won't say it's over 'til I haven't seen how it works inside
and I'm here still wondering why am I sometimes feeling so alive
I can think of something as wide as all we know as human kind,
all the good and bad thing we did, now i guess this time it's worth to try

Now I'm feeling nothing, and I haven't felt nothing for so long
and I'm sure I won't feel nothing if the world keeps going this wrong
Sure I know that it's your fault, but deep inside i know it's my fault too
I feel so weak and lonely that it doesn't seem I can get through



At this point, I went to ChatGPT and asked:

"I have two verses of a song, and I need to continue it" and then copy/pasted the lines above


the result was:


I can't shake off this feeling, that there's more to life than what we see
And I'm holding on to hope, that someday we'll find our destiny
I'm not giving up just yet, 'cause I know that we can change our fate
We can rise above it all, and make our dreams come true and not be late

i'll keep searching for the answers and i won't stop until i find the truth
i'll keep fighting for a better future never lose my light
we'll break free from all the chains that are holding us down
****we may be young but our voice is strong we'll show the world where we belong




Honestly speaking, I just amended some words and phrase to put it down in my song in the way i'd like to sing them, but they were just minor adjustment.

ChatGPT got the overall meaning and, most important, the metric.

the last phrase

***We may be young, but our voice is strong, We'll show the world where we belong

was part of another query to ChatGPT with a completely different question, because I needed something different


this is song, as sang by SynthV Kevin (mix in progress)





honestly, I'm more than impressed.
 
look at you getting the conversation back on track😁

No that's really interesting - although I note that your friends' two verses tend more towards a sort of existential despair, and the AI seems to be rather more optimistic!
The original "mood" of the song (maybe 15 years ago!) was something about eco fiendly-ambientalism-recylcing-green deal, etc. very ahead of time! :)

I overall liked the result!
 
I feel pro-AI with regard to the musical arena related to the realism, playability and ease of production out of the box for virtual instruments, including the special challenge with exposed solo instruments or small ensembles like string quartets. I think these are matters that many of us talk about on this site.

I have long dreamed about an AI application in specific support of that goal. I am not that interested so much in AI writing the music as I am in AI helping in the performance of it, in producing best in class articulations and note-to-note transitions that are controllable more like a composer would talk with an instrumentalist who has the skillset to respond to such things.

For instance, as knowing how much portamento does what to a phrase, just as an example. Or doing vibrato in all its complexity and human-ness. Or any of the other myriad of factors to add up to more musicality and realism. Like being able to produce what an actual vibrato waveform produced by a highly skilled instrumentalist would be that makes it more realistic and musically complex than a cut-and-splice set of cross-faded recorded samples or a physically modeled instrument that doesn't quite generate the complex waveform that you find in skilled recorded instrumentalists.

Of course, physical models might utilize the AI by incorporating more components and component complexity in timbre generation. And AI might also help sample libraries makers and users in many of the things that are hand-controlled now.

But I'm really hoping for breakthroughs the use of AI to fundamentally up level the nature of what a virtual instrument is and how to control it, to take the best of both approaches (recorded samples and algorithmic synthesis) with instrumental timbre as well as putting those instruments into a gorgeous complex and realistic space.

The application SynthV sounds like a real shift in the success of applied AI for singing. This shift I would imagine in part rests on the back of the whole arena of speech synthesis, and that has historically had a high commercial value relative to timbre synthesis, so it has historically had much more R&D resources thrown at it.

Nonetheless, I wonder about what is happening in the realm of instrumental timbre generation with AI... I hope there is something happening out there. I just have not heard of it. I don't really see that much in that direction with sample libs or physical models. I have a friend who was one of the developers of a very successful speech recognition/generation system that probably half of the population uses all day long, and I know he has more recently moved into the arena of music AI, but as far as I know, he is working with real instrumentalists and not virtual instruments.

Anyone know of anything happening with AI and virtual instruments?
 
Did they just delete my post? Sorry this is unacceptable. WTH are you doing Mike? Is this for real? I'm really pissed. If you don't want me here, say why and ban me. But stop deleting my posts without an explanation.
 
It took time to write my post. Don't waste my time. You don't have a right to do that even if it's your forum.
 
honestly, I'm more than impressed.
Yeah, it's pretty trippy. I took your advice here and talked to it in a variety of ways: I asked it to write an English sonnet about quantum mechanics; to explain the orbit of the earth around the sun; it took some lyrics I wrote and it offered a cogent sociological critique of what the words meant, offering both metaphorical and literal interpretations, and also added some lines when asked.

The poetry was not good and the prose was not deep, but was it competently rendered and reflected a fairly sophisticated "understanding" of what was being requested, mimicking human cognition in terms of its ability to synthesize an array of concepts and successfully integrate them into a unified perspective.
 
Did they just delete my post?
I deleted a whole bunch of posts. When a thread devolves into shitting into jars, then assume wholesale post deletions are on their way. It's possible some posts that got deleted were actually legit, but throwing a tantrum here isn't the way to handle that.

You don't have a right to do that even if it's your forum.
Wanna bet?
 
Top Bottom