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Some questions about SONUSCORE-THE ORCHESTRA

dzilizzi

I just hang around pretending I know something
Both ??
More like: TO_Complete crossgrade, Frozen Piano, UnfilteredAudio LION, RRA /APD, Nucleus ??,
I'd wait on the LION. It will be on sale in a year for less. If you get BBCSO, you may not need Nucleus and vice versa. The rest, I don't know. I'm going to wait on BBCSO for the 40% off wishlist sale. Eventually, it will be on it. But I do have SSO (since last Christmas sale) so I don't have a real need for it.
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
LION is on PA User promo code for $99. (but likely lower later). Have (and enjoy) Byome & Triad. PluginGuru just did cool walkthrough for LION.

Yes, Nucleus falls in favor of BBCSO. You are in better shape with SSO; will see come BlkFri.

Likely will 'gamble' that RRA will eventually promo other Libs fairly soon. :unsure:
 

dzilizzi

I just hang around pretending I know something
I picked up the Runs & Arps on the recent sale. I can't remember if I got the melodics as well. I was going back and forth on it, as I don't really need it. But this will kind of finish the set. Hmm. I like complete sets....
 

Willowtree

I make music
Thank you @Willowtree, very helpful. With regards to buying superfluous libraries, this is advice I've seen often and so far have been able to stick to (I only have the Komplete 12 set which came with my KK S88, Albion V, Sound Dust I and Noire). At this point I'm looking to get a bread and butter orchestral library which I plan to take at least a year to explore without buying other products (fingers crossed, wallet thrown away). This is the second recommendation to trial Composer Cloud I've received, and I think that's what I'll do. That said, to my untrained eye, BBCSO and EWHO seem to be very similar orchestras in terms of being a bread and butter library. BBCSO has harp and a few other instruments (and a billion more mics which I doubt I need), whereas EWHO seems to have more articulations. Beyond workflow, which is a great call out (thank you), what about tonality? I already know I can work with Spitfire's products for workflow as I am mainly using Albion V and Sound Dust I. In fact, being new to midi orchestration, primarily using SA products is probably shaping my workflow more than the other way around. But in terms of tonality, and since I don't/won't have both products in hand for comparison, does it make sense to listen to the demos and determine whether I prefer one vs. the other? Meaning, even if I find EWHO has a workflow that works for me, would it not be prudent before buying a library to determine if I prefer the overall tonality of another library? Or is this a matter of reverbs, EQ's, etc. which I can change at will? I honestly don't know how much the tonality differs from library to library, I just know that a ton of threads in this forum discuss tonality, attacks, articulations, dynamic layers, etc. which no two libraries seem to be truly comparable. When I go to listen to library demos, some have only a few in even fewer composition styles, while others have so many I honestly lose confidence that I could replicate any of their tonality. I also always keep in mind that the demos are likely the very best sounding those libraries can be, given they're created by experts. I guess a simpler way to ask would be, is workflow paramount to tonality, or should tonality be considered on an equal basis and if so, what's the best way to test this?
I'd say generally don't be afraid to spend money wisely, but I will say if you take a year to explore whatever library you end up purchasing, chances are you'll either master it or condition yourself to loathe it. Or both! :')

Joking aside, I personally try to get to know my libraries very well. I make charts to keep track dynamic layers and how they respond to CC, I make extensive notes about how each library performs, strengths and limitations.

That's also part of the reason I have so many unused libraries. I spend so much time exploring them before I use them there's a queue of libraries waiting to be explored. ;)

I think you're on the right track here, but also don't be afraid to spend money wisely.

Now, on to your question:
By tonality, do you mean the tone of the players of each library?

If we set technical considerations (RRs, programming, dynamic layers, amount or type mics etc) aside, I'd say, we can break down considerations in comparing the tone of similar sample libraries into a few factors.

The musicians
The playing style of the musicians, the way the music is performed, the section sizes. This of course has a very large impact on the tone of a library, and because dynamics are relatively meaningless without context, and because a larger section doesn't necessarily make for a larger sound, it's not as easy as "this many players, this dynamic, so it's going to have this sound...".

For example, four trumpets playing in unison aren't going to sound more "epic" (or whatever term we're using today ;)) than two trumpets playing in unison. It's going to sound fuller, though.

However, if a company is producing a brass library they may direct the a2 trumpet players to have a softer tone than the a4 trumpet players. Or they may record the same dynamics for both section sizes, but the a2 trumpet may use a playing style more oriented towards a smoother sound.

Sometimes, it won't matter. In 8dio Century Brass, the a2 and a4 Trumpet sections have a similar sound, and seem to have been recorded with the same direction and playing styles. As a result, the a4 patch has mostly the same tone as the a2 patch. However, this also allows you to easily layer them for an even fuller sound.

Meanwhile, also in 8dio Century Brass, the a6 French Horn section certainly sounds more intense and larger than the a2 French Horn section, particularly at the loud dynamics. Yet, the a12 French Horn patch has a much softer sound than the a6 section, more of a gentle, grand playing style. It may be twice the size, but it's far softer.

Ultimately, louder dynamics don't necessarily mean a more marcato-esque sound, and a larger section mostly makes the sound fuller, but it depends on the instrument.

For example, if you increase the number of players in a string section you're likely to get a more silky, less gritty sound.
On the other hand, if you increase the number of Woodwinds players, the sound will generally become less pleasant (Woodwinds playing in unison is broadly speaking not a very pleasant sound).

But with sample libraries we can get away with a lot. Which is why we can record 12 French Horns playing in unison and they will actually sound in tune. Or, why we can have a very gritty, intimate string section playing as loud as 3 trumpets at FFF.

So, ask yourself this: What do you want to make? Do you want realism? Do you want a more European sound or a more American sound?

Listen to the BBC Orchestra. Then, listen to a couple of Hollywood scores. Listen to BBC Orchestra's take on some Hollywood score. Compare.

It won't show you how the actual sample libraries sound, but you'll get an idea of the players.

In addition to the above, two other factors are also important:
The room
Where the library was recorded, eg. church, hall, recording studio etc. Some libraries are recorded in church environments or large halls yet retain relatively little tail, and that can have a large impact on tone and expressiveness.

The recording process
Mics used, how the audio is treated, the recording technique.

This post is already far too long though. But essentially, different libraries using the same section sizes and instruments will often have very different sounds.

Also, one more note: The BBC Spitfire library is a new library, Some of Hollywood Orchestra is now around a decade old.

I don't mean that to say EWHO is "showing its age". However, composers have had a decade to figure it out, to use it, to get familiar with it.

That may be a pro or a con to you. But it's something to consider.

Hopefully, you'll be pleased whichever route you go. :)
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
Purchased and installed The Orchestra Complete 'Upgrade' from ( The Orchestra v1.1 ) via Best Service. All seemed to go well and un-rar(d) with 7Zip. Installed into Native Access no problems.

Running Win10 Pro (latest), Reaper x64 (latest), Kontakt 6. Shows in Libraries as expected, but Batch re-save fails and shuts down Reaper just as sample checking shifts to nki(s).

Tried another un-rar and exactly same as first. Might try K5.8.1, but no clue the cause.
Any advices ??

Also, is there info what to do with The Orchestra 1.1 ? Does it remain along with TO-Complete, or get deleted ?

Will appreciate any & all help ! :barefoot:
 

AndyP

Active Member
If you installed it as an upgrade you should see 2 librarys. The Orchestra and The Orchestra complete.
Complete contains everything in the Orchestra and can replace TO. I deleted TO from my drive and only added TOC.

The previous strings section should now have 2 patches with articulations.

Unfortunately I can't contribute anything to the Reaper problem.
 

BluesCat

New Member
Purchased and installed The Orchestra Complete 'Upgrade' from ( The Orchestra v1.1 ) via Best Service. All seemed to go well and un-rar(d) with 7Zip. Installed into Native Access no problems.

Running Win10 Pro (latest), Reaper x64 (latest), Kontakt 6. Shows in Libraries as expected, but Batch re-save fails and shuts down Reaper just as sample checking shifts to nki(s).

FWIW Batch re-save in K6 crashes for me as well, on The Orchestra 1.1 (I don't have the Strings of Winter yet). It crashes out on Ethera Gold and a few other libs as well, but the libraries play just fine. I am assuming NI is still working out the kinks in K6.
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
If you installed it as an upgrade you should see 2 librarys. The Orchestra and The Orchestra complete.
Complete contains everything in the Orchestra and can replace TO. I deleted TO from my drive and only added TOC.

The previous strings section should now have 2 patches with articulations.

Unfortunately I can't contribute anything to the Reaper problem.
Many thanks !! :thumbsup: ..... as multiple SSD /HDD getting near capacities.
Surely same applies to RRA-Symphonic Sketchpad /Primary Colors __ which must be small subset of SSketchpad ?
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
FWIW Batch re-save in K6 crashes for me as well, on The Orchestra 1.1 (I don't have the Strings of Winter yet). It crashes out on Ethera Gold and a few other libs as well, but the libraries play just fine. I am assuming NI is still working out the kinks in K6.
Aaaaahh ! Appreciate hearing this so will not stress out right now. Will now just double check everything and try to enjoy. ;)
 

AndyP

Active Member
Aaaaahh ! Appreciate hearing this so will not stress out right now. Will now just double check everything and try to enjoy. ;)
Enjoy! I find the additional articulations and the winterstrings extremely good.
I hope they do the same for Brass and WW.
 

Simon Schrenk

New Member
Many thanks !! :thumbsup: ..... as multiple SSD /HDD getting near capacities.
Surely same applies to RRA-Symphonic Sketchpad /Primary Colors __ which must be small subset of SSketchpad ?
Just a little note on that. While it is contentwise true, that you can delete TO from your hard drive. Please keep in mind, that when you want to revisit old sessions that used TO, that session will not work anymore, because it won't be able to find the corresponding instruments.

NI is aware of the batch re-save problem and hopefully they come up with a fix for that soon.
 
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