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Newb question. So is VI-Control what Northern Sounds used to be?

Back in the day when I was a composition student Northern Sounds was the go to place. I just took a 20 year break due to performing live music. Now coming back to the forums it seems like VI-Control is where everyone is at.
That's a fair assessment
 
From the Home Page of this website:

"VI-Control was founded in 2004 by Frederick Russ as a place where people could speak freely about composing and sample libraries. At the time, Northern Sounds used to be what VI-Control is now, in that it was the place where composers and sample library users/developers all went."
 
From the Home Page of this website:

"VI-Control was founded in 2004 by Frederick Russ as a place where people could speak freely about composing and sample libraries. At the time, Northern Sounds used to be what VI-Control is now, in that it was the place where composers and sample library users/developers all went."
That makes sense… thanks. When NS was falling apart was about the same time I went back to performing.
 
Northern Sounds was "the place," but the main advertisers (I believe it was mostly Garritan?) resented the negative posts they were getting, since they were the ones essentially financing the forum. Meanwhile, some of the newer developers (VSL, Spectrasonics, Sonic Implants, East-West, etc.) were getting all sorts of glowing comments, but weren't paying for ads, or paying to have special sub-forums. (Garritan paid extra to have their own special section. I think East West had a section as well, although I'm not sure if they paid for that, or if it was just a nod from NS that they were indeed the heavyweight at the time.)

The forum made some new policies. I can't remember if it was specifically forbidden to criticize Garritan, but it did become forbidden to name certain competing products, if they weren't advertisers. It was pretty bizarre, and people obviously became resentful, since someone might ask, "Which library has the best clarinet?", but you weren't allowed to answer that question with any names besides the very short list of NS advertisers.

As you might expect, people started defying the rule, and started getting banned. Almost everyone, in fact. It started to become comical, to the point where it became a badge of honor, and everyone wanted in on the action.

When I say "comical," that's literally true, as some anonymous person (everyone knows it was Nick Phoenix, but ... we don't really know who it was ;) ) made an actual comic called "Northern Enclosure." I think there were three or four installments, and it was really funny, as it lampooned not only the forum, but many of the members. Nick Batzdorf's avatar (which you can see four posts above mine) comes from that comic. (@Quantum Leap, if you happen to have copies, they would sure be fun to see again ...)

Frederick Russ started VI-Control as a sort of refugee camp, with the philosophy that people should be allowed to speak honestly about products or developers. I would add the words, "even advertisers," but at the time, there were no advertisers here. This was all out of Frederick's pocket. He deserves tremendous credit, not just for doing the work of creating the forum, but running it with a philosophy that's too easy to take for granted if you don't consider how it could have been.

Frederick did eventually start running ads. (And then I shamelessly cranked those up to 11.) His philosophy remained, though, that you could speak honestly about any products, including advertisers. That's key, and it's a big part of why the forum is such a valuable resource. (I've kept that same philosophy, to the point where I'll sometimes have to remind advertisers that running ads does not buy them "protection." Frederick would never have agreed to sell the forum to me if I didn't. Keeping the integrity of the forum was way more important to him than the money, to the point where at the time, a couple other people had made offers, but I was the the one he felt he could trust to keep the forum on the same course. Not to make this about me, but I've always felt honored by that.)

Amusingly, after NS lost most of its membership, the owner (I can't remember who was the owner, who I think was different from the admin - Canadian, though, hence the name "Northern" Sounds) decided he wanted to sell the forum. I never saw the actual amount he wanted, but I'm told it was crazy high, like a million or so. He got no takers. The forum limped along for another fifteen years or so, a shadow of its former self, until it finally went dark a couple years ago.
 
Oh man, Northern Sounds. Yeah, that place was just weird.

As far as I recall, the vibe really couldn't be explained just by advertisers wanting to promote their products and silence talk of all others. It was more like a cult.

You can go to all sorts of developer-specific forums that clearly promote the developer's products but don't have the NS vibe (EW comes to mind...). NS was different. It felt like what I imagine North Korea is like.

rgames
 
I remember they had a really good interactive version of The principles of orchestration. Does it survive anywhere?
If you go through the Internet Archive, it's still there technically. It doesn't function the same way, but you can download the webpage and each of the corresponding flash files to play in VLC as you read through.

It would be nice to have that brought online again, either entirely as it was with the Garritan samples or updated to use something more modern. Quite a lift though, a lot of work went into it, which is why it's a shame it's difficult to access.
 
Amusingly, after NS lost most of its membership, the owner (I can't remember who was the owner, who I think was different from the admin - Canadian, though, hence the name "Northern" Sounds)
It was two guys. Papa something was one of them, I've long since forgotten the other guy's name.

I met them briefly at a NAMM Show one year, but just said hi, nothing more.
 
If you go through the Internet Archive, it's still there technically. It doesn't function the same way, but you can download the webpage and each of the corresponding flash files to play in VLC as you read through.

It would be nice to have that brought online again, either entirely as it was with the Garritan samples or updated to use something more modern. Quite a lift though, a lot of work went into it, which is why it's a shame it's difficult to access.
Do you have a link? I wasn't able to find it.

- Rick Catsbarf
 
I remember they had a really good interactive version of The principles of orchestration. Does it survive anywhere?
Man I remember that. I participated when it first came out, but only got halfway through before getting distracted by life. By the time I found it again, maybe 10 years ago, it had already become too creaky to use easily.

The thing is, even if somebody rebuilt the course, the most valuable part was that all the members were working through it together and giving each other help and feedback on the forum. Without that realtime community I'm not sure it's all that superior to just getting a copy of the book.
 
Ashif Hakik (King Idiot) sadly died a year ago
Oh ... that's sad news to me. :-( ... While I never met Ashif in person we had several very nice e-mail conversations in the early years of VSL - last time more than a decade ago, however, when MIR got released.

He will be remembered, that's for sure. It's people like him who make places like Northern Sounds special. I was always fond of his online persona over there.
 
Yeah I used to lurk over at Northen Sounds and yes it felt like going to a forum based in N Korea,it was so damn repressive.
I vaguely remember chocOtrax and King Idiot.
After Northern Sounds got too weird for me I started going to the EW forum aka SoundsOnline and once they got heavy handed banning people or threatening to ban users like myself that were critical of anything EW,like the original transition to PLAY,so I bailed on SoundsOnline.
People that didn’t start going to forums until GS,KVR or VI-C were established probably cannot imagine how much the forums have evolved the last several years.
I remember finding this forum and thinking it’s a bit different but somehow pretty cool and I’m sure Mike has been regretting it ever since! lol

Kudo’s to both Fredrick and Mike for creating and the continued development of VI-C 👍
 
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Oh ... that's sad news to me. :-( ... While I never met Ashif in person we had several very nice e-mail conversations in the early years of VSL - last time more than a decade ago, however, when MIR got released.

He will be remembered, that's for sure. It was people like him who made places like Northern Sounds special. I was always fond of his online persona over there.
He was a very talented and sweet guy, also involved in new sampling techniques and if I remember well also contacted by VSL when it was a startup (we chatted about this stuff with him in our #midi-mockup IRC channel, getting several of us banned from NS, several times, because they thought we were conspiring against them).

I remained distantly connected via FB and once set up a fundraiser for his then dog Bella, who needed an eye operation. His last years were troubled, he got homeless and his occasional Facebook posts got more and more confusing and puzzling. I heard he died peacefully in his sleep, so not what I had come to expect. But I can't remember how I heard about this and how accurate it is...

He was a really nice guy.
 
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