New Members - Forum Guidelines

[Mike Greene]

I think new members should just be automatically prevented from posting new threads until they've posted some number of replies in other threads. This rule works well in other forums.

That's one of those ideas that sounds good in theory, but it's a solution rife with unintended consequences. Namely that there are so many exceptions where it's good that new members can post right away. (Legit composers often join the forum with a new topic they want to discuss, for instance.)

And we're not having that big a problem to begin with. New members generally accept what I ask of them and we're all good. In this case, I pointed Sondre to this thread (three times), which is usually all that's needed.

But for whatever reason, he kept starting new topics. (Clickbait topics.) Since he's now telling us he didn't come here to learn about composing, then my guess is the plan was for the clickbait topics to build more of a following for his SoundCloud/YouTube channels. (Hence the pretty girl with violin pix. It's not like this is the first time we've seen this sort of thing.)

 

[SupremeFist]

And we're not having that big a problem to begin with.

I personally find the forum increasingly cluttered with threads from new members asking in very general terms what is the best string library, or what is your favourite piano library, or how do I write melodies, or whatnot - ie, the kind of stuff that wouldn't happen under such a rule, because newbies would be forced to search and realise there are already millions of posts on these things - and as a consequence it's harder for me to come across the good stuff when browsing by recent and I just give up sooner.

 

[Nico5]

I personally find the forum increasingly cluttered with threads from new members asking in very general terms what is the best string library, or what is your favourite piano library, or how do I write melodies, or whatnot

I share your sentiment - and the prevailing culture of the forum seems to be not discouraging encouraging such laziness.

This would be ok, if the forum is intended to be mostly a water cooler for idle chit chat. Or a psychologist couch for lonely souls. Or a free personal mentoring site.

But if it’s desirable to be and remain a valuable resource for questions that haven’t been already answered ad nauseam here and/or elsewhere, then this clutter hurts the signal to noise ratio.

---

p.s. Arguably there’s another benefactor of threads being repetitive: AI bots get to ingest more variants of the same territory, which arguably helps to increase the quality of the results the machine learning models spit back out.

So if the idea is to better train our new AI overlords, then we should continue to joyfully re-hash existing topics ad nauseam.

 

[aeliron]

…

But for whatever reason, he kept starting new topics. (Clickbait topics.) Since he's now telling us he didn't come here to learn about composing, then my guess is the plan was for the clickbait topics to build more of a following for his SoundCloud/YouTube channels. (Hence the pretty girl with violin pix. It's not like this is the first time we've seen this sort of thing.)

Seems about right.

 

[Mike Greene]

I personally find the forum increasingly cluttered with threads from new members asking in very general terms what is the best string library, or what is your favourite piano library, or how do I write melodies, or whatnot ...

I share your sentiment - and the prevailing culture of the forum seems to be not discouraging encouraging such laziness.

Is it really, though? I get that that can be the perception sometimes, but of the last day or so of Latest posts, how many threads are really of the over-repetitive "What's the best strings library?" variety? (That's an honest, not rhetorical, question. I think we've been deleting most of the threads like Sondre's, but maybe we're missing a bunch more, in which case it would be good to know where they are.)

My bigger mission lately is cutting down on the quantity of Commercial and Deals threads, and especially excessive bumps of those. To me, those have become way more problematic in the last couple years, and we've been deleting a lot.

All of it's tricky, though. Just when i think I've got it right, and I'm in a deletin' frenzy, I delete a new AI thread started by a brand new member. Gotcha, you newbie loser! There are too many AI threads already, dammit, so new members should definitely not be starting new ones!

That new member? Simon Franglen. Oops. Turns out it was a legit thread, of course, so I restored it, and Simon took it in good humor. But it was still a good lesson in, "Mike, you gotta chill with over-managing the forum."

The bottom line is it's a forum, not a straight "resource site," where questions aren't allowed unless the member has thoroughly searched the archives first. That would be boring. So while I don't think we want the forum to devolve into a chat room, I think it's still cool to have a "Best Strings Library" thread every year or so, and even the annoying "Should I move to L.A." topic needs to recur every so often so a new batch of people can talk about the time it took them 12 hours to drive from Santa Monica to Burbank.

 

[biborgh]

Hi! I answered someone's thread and I want to message them, and keep getting this error message:

" The conversation feature is reserved for ACTIVE members. As you have zero (0) posts on the forum, you can however start a conversation with one of the following staff members. : creativeforge"

Does Vi control takes time to update my profile or do I have to open a thread? Couldn't find a guide/answers, thanks!

 

[Mike Greene]

Have I ever mentioned how much I hate the Classifieds section? On the scale of "Things Mike Hates," if we have a cute puppy at 0, and Donald Trump at 10, then the Classifieds has gotta be an 8. At least. It's full of people I've never heard of whining that they got ripped off, or that they can't send PMs (or worse, they start posting useless drivel so they can bump their post count), or they are scams ... it's an f-ing endless annoyance. I swear I'm going to delete that section.

Anyway ...

" The conversation feature is reserved for ACTIVE members. As you have zero (0) posts on the forum, you can however start a conversation with one of the following staff members. : creativeforge"

Soooo ... did you start a conversation with @creativeforge?

 

[Bbmus.5]

I understand the rules, the forum has helped me a lot since I joined in the last month, even though I didn’t post anything. But just because a member is new on the forum, it doesn’t mean they are new on composing or technology for that matter, thats one thing nobody takes into account in this thread, this approach is very intimidating. I was thinking of posting something interesting to me, but now that I found this, I won't bother wasting my time.

 

[Polkasound]

But just because a member is new on the forum, it doesn’t mean they are new on composing or technology for that matter, thats one thing nobody takes into account in this thread, this approach is very intimidating.

Actually that is taken into account here:

And maybe you do have some thoughts or questions worthy of posting … but in moderation, please. I know I said I don’t want to use hard numbers, but … if you’re a new member, more than 5 posts per day would be a lot.

The approach is not designed to intimidate anyone from engaging on the forum about things like composing or technology. Sometimes new members post valuable content from the get-go and instantly fit right into the community. But that's not always the case. Sometimes new members spam the forum with self-promotion, or they join just to voice their opinions over and over on volatile topics. That's not the kind of service this forum wants to provide.

When people join this forum, they know what their intentions are. They know whether they want to engage with others about composing and technology, or if they have some other reason. For example, Sondre Drakensson stated above that he didn't want to learn anything here — he just wanted to mingle and chit chat with members. There's nothing wrong with wanting that, but it's not a great fit for VI-Control. It just adds noise and pushes down threads. It's the difference between: "Can accordion bellow shakes be simulated?" and "Hey guys, what's up?" That's a huge difference.

Some latitude has to be given for chit chat because this is a fun community, but more will be given to members who have been around the block than new members who haven't even shifted their car into drive yet. I looked at your roughly 20 posts so far, and it's apparent you have a genuine love for your craft and sincere interest in the VI tools you use. As long as you don't surprise us by going off the rails with a multi-post rant on how concertinas are real instruments (because everyone knows they're not) it's safe to say you'll fit like a glove here.

 

[ambientfreak]

In the last couple months, we've had a number of new members who go on posting sprees. While I want the forum to be a welcoming place, it’s becoming a bit much, so I'm creating this thread so I can point to it when I ask people to slow down.

Threads like this (or any “rules” announcements) are difficult, because hard numbers for questions like “How many posts per day are okay?” are impossible, since context is the overriding factor. So instead, it’s more important to get a feel for the forum before going on a spree of “Here are all my thoughts and questions!” posts. Here are some basic things to know:

1. The VI-Control membership is more sophisticated than most other sites. Although we have around 45,000 members, we have a few hundred people here with real knowledge about various topics, and that's what makes this forum the resource that it is.

But if the forum turns into a chat zone, they're not likely to stay. So we don’t want the forum devolving into endless chit chat amongst people with nothing else to do all day. That’s not to say “fun” topics, or jokes, or general musings are verboten, but most of us who have been here a while have a feel for how much is too much.

2. VI-Control is busier than I would like, and getting busier. You have to scan over a hundred thread titles just to see what's new in the last 24 hours. That's too many, since it results in a lot of worthwhile topics getting lost in the mix. We are most definitely *not* starved for content. (Or as one over-posting newcomer put it when I told him to slow the f down, "I thought the more discourse the better." Yikes!)

So I've been more aggressive in eliminating some of the more annoying threads. I’ll toot my own horn here and add that that includes excessive commercial announcement and deals threads (even from paying advertisers), where you may notice there are about half as many deals/announcements threads as there were a few months ago.

Now, my goal in writing this isn’t that I want to intimidate you or scare you off. (And FWIW, I still have some work to do in slowing down the “Gosh, what do you think Spitfire will release next!” threads and various other over-posting problems from some of the more veteran members.)

But I would like you to take a breath and let your first couple months lean more towards being a reading thing, rather than a posting thing. Posting an Introduce Yourself post right away (or later) is fine, of course. And maybe you do have some thoughts or questions worthy of posting … but in moderation, please. I know I said I don’t want to use hard numbers, but … if you’re a new member, more than 5 posts per day would be a lot. But I’m not trying to silence you completely.

So, unwelcoming as this post may seem, welcome to the forum! I hope your experience here is a positive one.

Hello,

I'm posting this here because, well, as a new member I cannot send you a DM, which would have been a lot more appropriate. I read the post you referred me to after you deleted my previous post. It says 5 posts per day would be too much, which I didn't even get close to: After your first warning, I posted one post per day two days in a row and stopped. I was excited to find this community after taking a long break from anything musical, but from your own post, I don't understand how making two posts is excessive. I am also very confused with the unfriendly tone of your warning (all caps, "final warning"), as I have not been posting incessantly. If I misunderstood the rules, I would appreciate if you could correct me so I can post accordingly. Otherwise, to echo the sentiments of the other poster, I honestly feel incredibly unwelcome in a community I was very excited to find after coming back to making music and feel very discouraged to post here again.

 

[Mike Greene]

Otherwise, to echo the sentiments of the other poster, I honestly feel incredibly unwelcome ...

Trust your instincts on that.

Sorry, I can't resist such an easy joke. There is some truth to the notion that the forum isn't for everybody, though. There's a certain vibe and etiquette here, so your best bet is to read more and post less until you truly have a feel for how everybody does things here. (When I say "5 posts," that's not a goal you should be striving for, that's more of "Slow down, amigo!" situation. A better goal would be zero or one post per day.)

In your specific case, you joined the forum on Friday and jumped right in by posting a piece in Member Compositions that same day. Then you regaled us with another piece the next day. And then you posted a third piece the day after that. Worse (in a tone deaf sort of way), you're now complaining about the fact that I deleted two of those

That's loud and clear proof that you haven't read much of the forum, because anybody who's been here a while knows that's way too much. (Especially for a newbie.) Posting one piece per month would be about as high as most people would go, even veterans. And before you point out that some other people have posted more frequently than that, I'm again going to tell you to read the forum more, and you'll start to understand how things run here. (If you're not yet at a stage where you understand what I mean when I say "the 99%", then you still have a ways to go on how the forum works. Specifically, why we don't have a lot of specific rules, where we instead rely on people simply knowing what's cool and what isn't.)

If you decide to stick around, it will all make sense one day.

 

[ambientfreak]

Trust your instincts on that.

Sorry, I can't resist such an easy joke. There is some truth to the notion that the forum isn't for everybody, though. There's a certain vibe and etiquette here, so your best bet is to read more and post less until you truly have a feel for how everybody does things here. (When I say "5 posts," that's not a goal you should be striving for, that's more of "Slow down, amigo!" situation. A better goal would be zero or one post per day.)

In your specific case, you joined the forum on Friday and jumped right in by posting a piece in Member Compositions that same day. Then you regaled us with another piece the next day. And then you posted a third piece the day after that. Worse (in a tone deaf sort of way), you're now complaining about the fact that I deleted two of those

That's loud and clear proof that you haven't read much of the forum, because anybody who's been here a while knows that's way too much. (Especially for a newbie.) Posting one piece per month would be about as high as most people would go, even veterans. And before you point out that some other people have posted more frequently than that, I'm again going to tell you to read the forum more, and you'll start to understand how things run here. (If you're not yet at a stage where you understand what I mean when I say "the 99%", then you still have a ways to go on how the forum works. Specifically, why we don't have a lot of specific rules, where we instead rely on people simply knowing what's cool and what isn't.)

If you decide to stick around, it will all make sense one day.

While the logical consistency of your response evades me, I am a guest here and respect the space you have created and are maintaining and want to thank you for letting me be here. If once per month is how frequently most people post on here, I will stick to that - thanks for clarifying that!

 

[chillbot]

Posting one piece per month would be about as high as most people would go, even veterans. And before you point out that some other people have posted more frequently than that, I'm again going to tell you to read the forum more, and you'll start to understand how things run here.

So once you are well-established it's ok, just as an example, to post 15x per day over a period of, let's call it 4.5 years or so? Just clarifying.

 

[Mike Greene]

If once per month is how frequently most people post on here, I will stick to that

Just to clarify, once per month is a good limit for posting new pieces in Member Compositions. Obviously people post more than that in other ways.