Mixer: What do you want to receive?

[pauldirks]

Hi everyone, relative newbie here. I think this is the right place for this question, although let me know if should be under the Mixing forum.

I am working on 15 pieces of hybrid music ~3 minutes long to go along with the chapters in an audio book. I want to hire someone to mix them for me and am looking for suggestions and best practices as far as what someone would want to receive. I am currently using BBCSO Core, Perc X, and some AAS plugs (VSS3 and Chromophone) in Cubase. Not sure this matters much. Presumably, mixers are dealing with the audio stems and not midi. Here are some of the questions I have:
- would the mixer want to receive the articulations for each instrument separately, or in one track?
- currently I have some basic mastering plugs on the main output. Would the mixer want no mastering plugs at all?
- currently panning in BBCSO Core is according to the natural settings. I have panned additional instruments around it. Anything I should be doing or expecting regarding the panning?
- currently using Eventide Ultrareverb for reverb, but my approach is pretty simple. Will a mixer prefer a dry mix (well as dry as BBCSO gets!) to add their own reverb magic?
- how much work should I be putting into my own best-attempt mix of each piece?
- anything else?

I can't afford to pay a pro, but I am thinking there may be some people here would would be willing to do this for $1k USD.
Note: not looking for interested parties quite yet.

Your thoughts or suggestions? I am open to anything (including "no one is going to do that work for so little!") Thanks.
Paul

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[reborn579]

hi paul! welcome to the forum
let me answer a few of your questions:

1. it doesn't matter what daw / plugins you use, because like you said, people mix on audio stems
2. you don't need to separate every articulation, just maybe the more different ones. for example separate spiccatto strings from long strings
3. ideally nothing on the mix bus, unless it's part of the sound design; i only touch the mix bus at the very end of the mix
4. the mixer will take care of panning as well, unless you have some very specific needs
5. you should give out a dry mix, unless the reverb is part of sound design or something like that; the reverb that comes with the samples is enough
6. unless you're good at mixing i would just send out a print of the tracks as they are right now; and accompanied by some examples and explanations of what you want

7. don't have the gain to high; as a rule of thumb, the highest peak on the mix bus shouldn't go above -10dB
8. ideally you should print the stems with the volume levels that are already in your project; so there's already a rough volume balance; so don't print the stems out at -5dB each or something like that.

 

[Composerbell]

My perspective is a little different as I’m pretty handy with samples and I often find I can get a better result if I reprogram a part rather than just mixing alone. In that regard, what I like to receive:

Midi and multitrack. I’m fine with taking them as they’re laid out currently, no need to make a bunch of work for you splitting out all the articulations. If you have them split, great - if no as you’re using key switches, also fine.

If I need to, I can always slice and move a section of audio to another track on my end. If they’re bouncing back and forth rapidly, slicing would be bad, but also, even if they had been originally printed to different tracks I wouldn’t want to do a lot of different processing on them differently, as I’m trying to make sure they sound coherent with each other.

Provide a fullmix exactly as you have it with reverb etc, so there’s a solid reference, but in the actual multitrack, remove added reverbs. Remove delays that are just texture - if they’re actually unique, colorful delays and aich then keep those on, but if it’s just regular echoes then remove them. Oftentimes composers put too much delay and reverb on their tracks because they’re so exciting to listen to, and a mixer will want to use less to get more clarity. So keep them only when they’re a really specific effect.

Do mix it as well as you can/want, as it’s better for the mixer to take what you’ve done and improve upon it rather than have to reverse engineer everything from scratch. Why waste that time for everyone?

In that regard, I prefer to have the panning that you’ve done, so I’m not just recreating your panning. This can be annoying if you’ve hard panned or squeezed something to near mono, but there’s always the option to ask for a track specific export if it’s really necessary.

Midi provides tempo and meter information, and if delivering to me, I also then have midi I can use to reprogram the occassional bit that I think could really benefit from another midi pass.

Please sort your different sections audio files so they don’t just drop in in a chaotic, alphabetical order or something. Having all bass in a folder, and all drums in an folder, etc, is helpful. Or just having the section in the beginning of the file name so they all sort together also works.

 

[Composerbell]

Oh, and also turn off the master chain and keep the levels low enough that there’s no clipping. -10 peak as suggested above works, though personally all I care about is that your mix is maintained and nothing is peaking.

 

[Composerbell]

Lastly, if you have any layered patches like in Omnishphere where a percussive sound (like a bell) is playing with a pad, separate those out. Having them on top of each other is very different than a keyswitch violin that changes articulations over time but doesn’t actually have fundamentally different sounds happening simultaneously!

 

[pauldirks]

hi paul! welcome to the forum
let me answer a few of your questions:

1. it doesn't matter what daw / plugins you use, because like you said, people mix on audio stems
2. you don't need to separate every articulation, just maybe the more different ones. for example separate spiccatto strings from long strings
3. ideally nothing on the mix bus, unless it's part of the sound design; i only touch the mix bus at the very end of the mix
4. the mixer will take care of panning as well, unless you have some very specific needs
5. you should give out a dry mix, unless the reverb is part of sound design or something like that; the reverb that comes with the samples is enough
6. unless you're good at mixing i would just send out a print of the tracks as they are right now; and accompanied by some examples and explanations of what you want

7. don't have the gain to high; as a rule of thumb, the highest peak on the mix bus shouldn't go above 10dB
8. ideally you should print the stems with the volume levels that are already in your project; so there's already a rough volume balance; so don't print the stems out at -5dB each or something like that.

Thanks reborn! I greatly appreciate this, especially knowing to separate shorts and longs

 

[pauldirks]

My perspective is a little different as I’m pretty handy with samples and I often find I can get a better result if I reprogram a part rather than just mixing alone. In that regard, what I like to receive:

Midi and multitrack. I’m fine with taking them as they’re laid out currently, no need to make a bunch of work for you splitting out all the articulations. If you have them split, great - if no as you’re using key switches, also fine.

If I need to, I can always slice and move a section of audio to another track on my end. If they’re bouncing back and forth rapidly, slicing would be bad, but also, even if they had been originally printed to different tracks I wouldn’t want to do a lot of different processing on them differently, as I’m trying to make sure they sound coherent with each other.

Provide a fullmix exactly as you have it with reverb etc, so there’s a solid reference, but in the actual multitrack, remove added reverbs. Remove delays that are just texture - if they’re actually unique, colorful delays and aich then keep those on, but if it’s just regular echoes then remove them. Oftentimes composers put too much delay and reverb on their tracks because they’re so exciting to listen to, and a mixer will want to use less to get more clarity. So keep them only when they’re a really specific effect.

Do mix it as well as you can/want, as it’s better for the mixer to take what you’ve done and improve upon it rather than have to reverse engineer everything from scratch. Why waste that time for everyone?

In that regard, I prefer to have the panning that you’ve done, so I’m not just recreating your panning. This can be annoying if you’ve hard panned or squeezed something to near mono, but there’s always the option to ask for a track specific export if it’s really necessary.

Midi provides tempo and meter information, and if delivering to me, I also then have midi I can use to reprogram the occassional bit that I think could really benefit from another midi pass.

Please sort your different sections audio files so they don’t just drop in in a chaotic, alphabetical order or something. Having all bass in a folder, and all drums in an folder, etc, is helpful. Or just having the section in the beginning of the file name so they all sort together also works.

I really appreciate the specificity here Justin, and interesting that you do actually like to have the midi files. I hadn't thought about tempo changes, but that makes a ton of sense to want that tempo map info. Also appreciate the thoughts about track organization in folders.

One further question. Currently, 95% of my percussion is done in PercX with just a single output. Would you want separate tracks with each of the perc instruments? By the sounds of it, I am guessing "yes," although I didn't think of that until reading your post.

 

[Composerbell]

Yeah, I mean I’ve done plenty of mixes where a bunch of perc is in a single audio file (especially where its unavoidable, like a pre-recorded loop) but it’s always a compromise. Better is to have them output separately and then if the mixer wants to apply processing across the group, they have the ability to buss it themselves.

 

[Baronvonheadless]

Hey welcome to the forum Paul!

So I think everything had been covered.

-Definitely have EVERY track separated to yield best results.

-Organize the stems in groups by instrument (brass, strings, etc).

-no reverb, no panning, no mastering plugins. The mix/mastering engineer will want full control over that.

-include an mp3 or wav of how you have it already as a reference. Sometimes I also like people (more so with bands I mix and master than composers) to give me a reference of a piece of work they like or are trying to emulate.

-don’t worry about making it perfect. I think the reference of how you have it or have tried to make it will guide the way. You could present the stems as such. Or set them all completely neutral and have the mixer completely mold it all from scratch. Depending on how many tracks are in a piece I like everything set to -10db and I’ll mess with it from there.


It’s interesting though. I wouldnt necessarily mess with someone else’s midi unless I was getting paid extra. Imo it’s odd. Are you getting credited for that? Mixing and mastering is already a noble days work, with its own credit.

If a band I record is new I am trying to capture lightning in a bottle. I try to make them sound as best as I can. Their best at that moment in time. I don’t re-record their guitar solos. Just a different philosophy. Now if I was getting paid to produce or as a guest player that’s different. Or if the extra work was negotiated in the overall price.

Granted I know it’s just nudging and etc but that could lead to a whole lot of chain reactions that require a lot of editing I would imagine.

 

[Composerbell]

I try to make them sound as best as I can. Their best at that moment in time. I don’t re-record their guitar solos. Just a different philosophy. Now if I was getting paid to produce or as a guest player that’s different. Or if the extra work was negotiated in the overall price.

Granted I know it’s just nudging and etc but that could lead to a whole lot of chain reactions that require a lot of editing I would imagine.

As far as how I operate, I’m honestly more of a composer and producer than mixer myself, but I do also mix my own music and others. If I do extra midi programming, it’s just an additional option, mainly because it will actually save me time to create a better recording than trying to wrestle an audio file that just doesn’t have the content I think the track needs. Like, if I think the track needs aggression but the composer didn’t use max velocity samples or their recording just doesn’t have the bite that my samples do, then I’ll add or layer in my own to give it more edge.

It’s definitely a bonus though and I’m definitely unusual for doing that. Lol!

 

[Baronvonheadless]

As far as how I operate, I’m honestly more of a composer and producer than mixer myself, but I do also mix my own music and others. If I do extra midi programming, it’s just an additional option, mainly because it will actually save me time to create a better recording than trying to wrestle an audio file that just doesn’t have the content I think the track needs. Like, if I think the track needs aggression but the composer didn’t use max velocity samples or their recording just doesn’t have the bite that my samples do, then I’ll add or layer in my own to give it more edge.

It’s definitely a bonus though and I’m definitely unusual for doing that. Lol!

I have a duality in my philosophy here because I’m also a perfectionist and if I have my name in anything I want it to be off a certain quality and I’d have that urge to do so. But at the same time it’s nice to separate duties if hired after the fact (of song creation) sometimes. You only have to worry about the quality of what you’re credited for haha. Respect to ALL methods as there are NO fucking rules.