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Lunaris 2 - Premiere Pads Instrument for Kontakt Player

I would like to integrate Lunaris 2 in an older project, anyone else struggling with the insanely slow loading times of the presets?
PS: moving the folder from SSD to M2 SSD, @Luftrum how the hell did you build an instrument with exactly 7777 files?! 😅
Eureka! Didn't know there were exactly 7777 files. Interesting.

Regarding the loading times. Presets don't load instantly, there's a lot of code activity going on under the hood, with 100s of MB of samples to be loaded per preset - in particular, if all four layers are in use. It is not uncommon for a preset to take 2 to 6 seconds to load and on older machines this might even be a few seconds longer. The more layers active, the longer the load time. But 30 seconds is definitely not the loading time of any presets.

You can try to batch resave and most importantly, deactivate antivirus and the active monitoring of backup software. We have gathered a few tips in the FAQ (4th from the top) https://www.luftrum.com/faq-support/

The programmer is working on a loading progress bar which is our priority for an update. This will be helpful because as it is now, the instrument just locks up/freezes during a preset load, which is not ideal.
@Luftrum thank you for the reply, re-batch did not solve the issue. Lunaris 1 starts very fast btw, also other heavy libraries like Bioscape needs up tp 8s to load any presets, which is still long on one of the fastest M2 SSDs on earth but still acceptable.

PS: Lunaris 2 first start from scratch ~39s, loading presets ~18s
Some more information: I was looking at the disk loading times and performance, when Lunaris 2 starts Windows is showing 7.5mb/s only, when I start Orchestral Strings (Sonokinetic) which is a really heavy library Windows shows me up tp 850mb/s. After loading the Lunaris 2 samples Kontakt needs still 8s to play the choosen preset. PS: used memory after loading Orchestral Strings: 8.24GB (!), while Lunaris 2 is only 70mb...
The slowest patches take about 6 seconds for me. (even after batch resave)
I have an Aorus M.2 SSD with a read speed of 5000 MB/s.
Since the patches are less than 200MB, it's surprising that it takes this long for such a small patch.
(normal Kontakt instruments of this size eg. from Spitfire load up in the blink of an eye.)

It must be something to do with how the layers are prepared,
as the patches with more layers take significantly longer.

@Luftrum should be commended for making such an innovative plugin,
but if any improvements to loading times is possible, it would certainly be welcome.
The slowest patches take about 6 seconds for me
Maybe you also have Bioscape for testing purposes? Just as Lunaris 2 Bioscape needs very long to load any presets as well. As I mentioned before it's not the size of the sample because Lunaris 2 loads very slowly so it has to do with the way how Lunaris calculates the layers. I would be very happy if Luftrum can sort it out, I've spent a lot of money for both libraries, actually I can't use them due to the horrendous loading times.
On my system, it takes Lunaris 2 around 8 secs to load a patch from a regular SSD drive. Adding a loading bar is going to be helpful, but if they can lower the loading times, or at least add a preload feature like Omnisphere has, then that would be even better.
I am hopeful that the lag is due to a bottleneck in data transfer that can be fixed in the scripting.

Perhaps a consult with a world class Kontakt programmer like David Healey would be worthwhile?
Thanks for the feedback regarding loading time.

As stated earlier, our first priority is to introduce a "loading progress bar" which is not present in Lunaris 2 (but is in the original Lunaris), and with this, I also hope we can improve the loading times, but 2-6 seconds per presets are acceptable and to be expected.

Anything in the range of 15-30 seconds per preset is not Lunaris 2, and this is very likely caused by settings out of our control, and if you experience this kind of loading time, I recommend checking the FAQ (click), in particular when it comes to antivirus and the active monitoring of cloud services.
For what is worth, I am on an Intel Mac, the library is loading in 3-4 seconds, and the presets are also taking 3 seconds on average to load.

The library is on a Samsung T7 drive connected via USB-C, and I use Kontakt 7.
I'm going to try and offer some insight on the loading times.

The loading times of Bioscape/Lunaris 2 should not be compared to other libraries (99.99% of them at least), like Spitfire, etc.
On an "internal" level, (groups, zones, etc) Bioscape/Lunaris work in a completely different manner in order to:

A: Allow for user content (drag and drop)
B: Overcome a limitation in the number of groups

Bioscape/Lunaris 2 don't just load samples into groups which are already configured (with zones and other settings) - the process called "purging" when done via scripting.

In order to overcome the A and B requirements mentioned above, group parameters (things like zones, volume, pitch, root, etc - I'll simplify and call these parameters), are generated and loaded on the fly.

This process is inherently slower than "normal" sample loading and it seems (I can't confirm this) that the loading times are actually exponentially longer with longer samples.

But samples and group parameter "generation" itself are not the main reason why the loading times are slower than your typical library.

The main reason is this:
When the samples are loading (and the groups are being processed), the groups' effects are also
loaded, and this includes the filters.

Again the filters themselves don't take a long time to load (some more than others, but they do add to the total).

What does take a long time to load are the modulators, specially the filter modulators - which are over 30 - but it's possible to be even more specific and say that the "Key Position" filter modulators are the responsible for most of the loading schedule.

It's not possible to optimize these via scripting because they are part of Kontakt's code.
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It's not possible to optimize these via scripting because they are part of Kontakt's code.
Hi P.N. thank you for clarifying the way how it works. Anyway we should try to find out why on some systems Lunaris is slower performing in comparison to others. My PC is quite powerful, there "must" be something which slows down the process (in my case). If you need any more information from my side please let me know.
Hi P.N. thank you for clarifying the way how it works. Anyway we should try to find out why on some systems Lunaris is slower performing in comparison to others. My PC is quite powerful, there "must" be something which slows down the process (in my case). If you need any more information from my side please let me know.
It's hard to diagnose. We've seen differences ranging from Mac vs PC (Macs having an advantage for some reason), different audio drivers (sound cards), different CPUs (AMD vs Intel), different operation systems.
As I'm reading above, the loading times you're getting are not reasonable so perhaps there's something else going on in your system.

Which version of Kontakt are you using?

EDIT: I just tested Bioscape in a very old Intel W7 machine and it was literally two times faster than my AMD 5800x W10 machine. It's a lottery, and unfortunately it just confirms this is not something that can be optimized via scripting.
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Which version of Kontakt are you using?
I have some news to offer, first of all I updated to Windows 22H2 yesterday (Kontakt 7.1.3, sound interface RME Fireface UFX II newest driver, AMD Ryzen X5900, RAM 96GB 3600, ASUS ROG Dark Crosshair VIII). After updating Windows to the newer version Lunaris 2 needs 8-10 seconds for loading, but it's even better if I use ASIO4ALL, e.g: INIT -> 2049 time for loading under 5s, MADIface USB ASIO very slow 9.62 seconds! :emoji_confused:
PS: also what I determined: when I change the ASIO driver from ASIO4ALL to MADIface Kontakt hangs for a moment, same when changing the presets (no response message if you click with the mouse on Kontakt).
PPS: I got in touch with RME Germany as well. NTL I hope that this thread may help some other users if they are running into similar troubles.
Heureka, I could solve it...important for EVERYONE who determines slow loading times. Since I'm working on projects in Cubase that easily use 50GB of RAM, I've currently set the buffer size of my sound interface to 1024 samples (to avoid CPU spikes). As a result the performance drops depending on the Kontakt instrument as well, as we can see with Lunaris 2 and Bioscape. Setting the buffer size to 521 samples, Lunaris 2 loads twice as fast (loading takes about 4s), 256 samples Lunaris 2 takes ONLY 2 seconds! That would make the system as fast as hell again. Finally it seems that only Kontakt instruments are affected if running a script when started, loading pure samples such as Spitfire Symphonic Strings etc. do not affect the performance, regardless of the buffer size.
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PS: @Luftrum honestly you could update your FAQ "Lunaris 2: It takes a long time to load presets"
Presets in Lunaris 2 (and Bioscape!!) do not load instantly, reducing the buffer size of your sound interface may speed up the loading process" or something like that.
Yes, buffer size is another variable, similar to the ones I mentioned above - drivers, operating system, etc.
It doesn't affect Bioscape's performance in my machines, but perhaps it can help others.

I'm glad it worked for you and that you now have loading times more in line with what's expected.
Having loading times comparable to "normal" libraries is, however, another story - due to the way user zones works (basically what I explained above).
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