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JXL's Godzilla vs King Kong

MarkusS

New Member
Well, in defence of the score, what type of music goes with a giant ape beating up a giant lizard?

[SPOILERALERT]I mean, the story is basically so here is King Kong and here is Godzilla, now they fight, oh wait they are both good guys, so now they fight together against a mechanical monster.

To me some of the true heroes of the film are the visual effects artists, their work is so impressive.

Also the sound design was really a blast to listen to.
 
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AdamKmusic

Senior Member
Well, in defence of the score, what type of music goes with a giant ape beating up a giant lizard?

I mean, the story is basically so here is King Kong and here is Godzilla, now they fight, oh wait they are both good guys, so now they fight together against a mechanical monster.

To me some of the true heroes of the film are the visual effects artists, their work is so impressive.

Also the sound design was really a blast to listen to.
That’s a bit spoilery for anyone who might not’ve seen the film yet 😂
 

Fizzlewig

New Member
Interestingly Tom mixed and mastered the score, according to the credits. You got to give credit to the guy, he does take the bull by it’s horns!
 

Macrawn

Active Member
Taking some of those old movies and making them something new usually fails, I think mostly because people can't buy into it anymore.

I thought this movie was pretty good though. It was serious but didn't take itself seriously at the same time which helped. It brought back the right memories from creature double feature.

I thought the score fit too.

I can't explain why I liked this and I liked the score but I hated the new Wonder Woman movie despite liking the first Wonder Women. The idea of King Kong vs. Godzilla is kinda a stupid idea but it worked for me this time. They navigated it well and made an entertaining movie. The Stranger Thing stuff was kinda dumb but it kinda worked too in the context of a movie that didn't take itself massively seriously. Thumbs up.
 

Bernard Duc

Active Member
are you saying this because you know this for a fact? or are you speculating? Did you work in the industry back in the '70s and 80s?
As a fact, nowadays if I work on a film I have to do all the mockups for every version, or I might be doing them for other composers. But I can also write with paper and pencil and I can go several times faster this way. I mean, it's quite obvious, in one case you have all the extra steps of creating a very good performance, while in the other case you hear everything in the head and the only limit to speed is how fast you can write (and have good ideas coming of course). If I handwrite nowadays I'm always working on concert music, which takes me much longer, but I remember in college when we had recording session and I didn't need to bring a mockup, I would do fully orchestrated paper sketches because of how much faster it was.
 
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dcoscina

dcoscina

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As a fact, nowadays if I work on a film I have to do all the mockups for every version, or I might be doing them for other composers. But I can also write with paper and pencil and I can go several times faster this way. I mean, it's quite obvious, in one case you have all the extra steps of creating a very good performance, while in the other case you hear everything in the head and the only limit to speed is how fast you can write (and have good ideas coming of course). If I handwrite nowadays I'm always working on concert music, which takes me much longer, but I remember in college when we had recording session and I didn't need to bring a mockup, I would do fully orchestrated paper sketches because of how much faster it was.
Like Gene Pool said, you have perhaps a bit of a limited perspective of what conditions were like then. I worked in the late 80s/90s and couldn't afford SMPTE converters and all that. So there was a lot of math to be done. Lots of spotting sessions, just as many alternates and revisions, and there were even mock-ups albeit, horrible sounding... and because samples weren't anywhere near what real instruments sounded like, a lot of changes at the recording session (being good on the fly was a mandate, not a nice add-on skill).

The challenges today are different than back then. I'm not saying anyone working today has it easy. There are different factors that create these challenges. I think the current system renders it impossible to write like the masters, even if one has the skill/talent because of it. So please do not misinterpret my post- I'm not invalidating your perspective, but rather asking that you don't invalidate ones from folks who actually worked when things were quite a bit different. It has never been an easy gig...

:)
 

Bernard Duc

Active Member
You realize that no MIDI and computers means that composers had to eff around with stop watches, click track books, math, click spools, moviolas, play reductions of their cues on the piano for the director, plus which produce competently orchestrated sketch scores, and sometimes even produce some or all of the full score themselves, and no ComposerHelper™ software or samples.
I do realize, and that's why they were getting help from other people as well. The timing part is indeed easier nowadays (though I don't think it makes that much of a difference in the overall process), but to create a competently orchestrated sketch score is soooo much faster than creating a professional mockup. I never said easier, just faster, and I say that from experience.

Films used to be much closer to "locked picture" when the composer started working, while nowadays composers often have to keep recomforming until the last day.

And no, composers never had to produce the full score themselves, they had copyist for that, just like nowadays (this part is waaay faster with computers, but is not the composer's job).

Anyway, composers at the time already worked with teams, and in many cases there was non-credited additional music by other composers. My point is that composers nowadays don't have it easier than back in the times, the challenges are simply different.
 

Bernard Duc

Active Member
It has never been an easy gig...

:)
I agree, that was my main point. It was hard back then, it is hard now, even if for other reasons. I would think that the early days of mockup and digital editing in the 90s were probably the worst. I was mostly referring at the decades before that and at bigger productions (since it's kind of the discussion in this thread) where a music editor or an assistant could help with timings.
 
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dcoscina

dcoscina

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I agree, that was my main point. It was hard back then, it is hard now, even if for other reasons. I would think that the early days of mockup and digital editing in the 90s were probably the worst. I was mostly referring at the decades before that and at bigger productions (since it's kind of the discussion in this thread) where a music editor or an assistant could help with timings.
With the greats like Goldsmith and Williams, they had a terrific shorthand with their orchestrators like Herb Spencer and Arthur Morton.. They had worked so closely for so long, they were creative partners. I'm not so sure about the aspect of locked prints though. I didn't work in the 70s (I was a kid then) but perhaps some other folks here might have more first-hand knowledge of that. I know that it was still a rarity to have a lock print even in the 90s (which enabled Goldenthal to replace George Fenton's score for Interview with the Vampire in 10 days, and totally sick with the flu from his accounts).
 

dgburns

Leg Ahh toe / Shpeig haw too
Do you get super sized, extra large popcorn when you go see a flick like this? You know, the popcorn that got mutated in a lab experiment gone horribly wrong and now has super powers and pops to the size of baseballs?

Wonder if there is a coupon for that at the cinemas?

Oh look, theres a giant Ape beating up on a giant Lizard, pass me more of that mutant popcorn ?



( humour people, sarcasm alert )
 

Bernard Duc

Active Member
With the greats like Goldsmith and Williams, they had a terrific shorthand with their orchestrators like Herb Spencer and Arthur Morton.. They had worked so closely for so long, they were creative partners. I'm not so sure about the aspect of locked prints though. I didn't work in the 70s (I was a kid then) but perhaps some other folks here might have more first-hand knowledge of that. I know that it was still a rarity to have a lock print even in the 90s (which enabled Goldenthal to replace George Fenton's score for Interview with the Vampire in 10 days, and totally sick with the flu from his accounts).
To be completely honest it's something I've always been taught, and something that makes sense to me (computers make it much easier to keep editing and to test different options), but I have no stats and obviously no personal experience.

As for JW's sketches, you probably saw them before, I have a bunch on my computer, but it's pretty much like reading the scores except it's condensed on eight staves.
 

Patrick de Caumette

Senior Member
Watched it last night too.
I thought that it was awful (the movie)
But then, with such a premise, what should one expect?
King Kong-size waste of money...
 

Gene Pool

Active Member
I do realize, and that's why they were getting help from other people as well. The timing part is indeed easier nowadays (though I don't think it makes that much of a difference in the overall process), but to create a competently orchestrated sketch score is soooo much faster than creating a professional mockup. I never said easier, just faster, and I say that from experience.

Films used to be much closer to "locked picture" when the composer started working, while nowadays composers often have to keep recomforming until the last day.

And no, composers never had to produce the full score themselves, they had copyist for that, just like nowadays (this part is waaay faster with computers, but is not the composer's job).

Anyway, composers at the time already worked with teams, and in many cases there was non-credited additional music by other composers. My point is that composers nowadays don't have it easier than back in the times, the challenges are simply different.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or anything, but you're really not my authority for matters related to how things used to be and how things were and were not done in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's.

I think you might be very surprised to learn how much you don't know about what did and did not happen in the scoring and arranging profession over the course of that 50-year period.

I'll leave it at that since there's no way for me to go forward without doing what might sound like to some as "name dropping" of a few now-deceased "old timers" and the thought of it makes me cringe.

Moreover, I lack any desire to have things get all internet-y, so let's dial back on the unnecessary splainin' and call it a day.
 

Bernard Duc

Active Member
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or anything, but you're really not my authority for matters related to how things used to be and how things were and were not done in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's.

I think you might be very surprised to learn how much you don't know about what did and did not happen in the scoring and arranging profession over the course of that 50-year period.

I'll leave it at that since there's no way for me to go forward without doing what might sound like to some as "name dropping" of a few now-deceased "old timers" and the thought of it makes me cringe.

Moreover, I lack any desire to have things get all internet-y, so let's dial back on the unnecessary splainin' and call it a day.
We can all name-drop, but your right, it tends to not lead the conversation anywhere. I wasn't there and I don't claim to be anyone's authority. The closest thing I know is what I learnt from older and infinitely more experienced than me colleagues, what I read in books, and what I learnt in school. But none of that really matters. My point is that the job is not easier nowadays than it was back then, when the turnover time for scores was already often extremely short and it was already usually a team effort. Most composers nowadays are lacking the skill to work like thirty years ago, but the opposite would also have been true to a large extent.
 

Uiroo

Señor Member
We can all name-drop, but your right, it tends to not lead the conversation anywhere. I wasn't there and I don't claim to be anyone's authority. The closest thing I know is what I learnt from older and infinitely more experienced than me colleagues, what I read in books, and what I learnt in school. But none of that really matters. My point is that the job is not easier nowadays than it was back then, when the turnover time for scores was already often extremely short and it was already usually a team effort. Most composers nowadays are lacking the skill to work like thirty years ago, but the opposite would also have been true to a large extent.
As things get easier and faster through technology, expectations grow as a consequence of that.
At least, thats what it looks like to me. If anything I would say the span of time a composer is busy on a project has increased, since edits are often happening right until release.

I'd also think that getting a cue approved was a different beast when the director didn't really hear the music until the recording session and didn't ask you to do 15 versions of the same cue?
 
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