What's new

Justice League

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
IMO "superheroes" are just the wrapper for spectacle movies.
That certainly explains it. And it is exhilarating to watch spectacle films... sometimes. It just seems (to me at least) that the spectacle becomes the story rather than supporting it.

But it's not true that people are going to see these movies because they love the "iconic" or "forever" version of these characters.
Yes, especially when the comics themselves have multiple versions of each character.


It does seem that the trend is still towards the gritty version of superheroes - focusing more on their flaws and dark side. I thought that was pretty cool... back when Nolan did Dark Knight. ;) But now it seems to have become a stereotype of its own.

@Consona, what is the argument that this Snyder spectacle will be so different? Why do you think this going to be a game-changer?
 

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
what is the argument that this Snyder spectacle will be so different? Why do you think this going to be a game-changer?
I want to know this as well. Isn’t it going to still be a film with Batman getting together a group of Super Heroes to fight a villain too powerful for one of them on their own? I mean, that was the plot of Justice League right? I’m now in self doubt as to whether I’m not remembering it properly 😂
 

NoamL

Winter <3
It just seems (to me at least) that the spectacle becomes the story rather than supporting it.
You're correct but it's just a momentary high that people will get over. Whenever something new and exciting comes along people want to squeeze it dry. In a way it's very like what happened to film scoring. Zimmer comes along and blows the doors off of "sound design" scores, and then for a while everyone races to outdo each other with sound design scores which eclipse the importance of other kinds of sophistication/creativity in music, and eventually people get bored of the "big blatty sound" style of filmscoring and the world balances back out again with sound design as an integrated element of a composer's toolkit. If you don't like Infinity War and Endgame then you can take solace in the fact that it's the BRAAAMiest BRAAM of comic book movies; nobody can make a bigger BRAAM so they won't try, and everyone's creative energy will turn to other outlets.
 
OP
Consona

Consona

Senior Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #225
How do I watch it? Is it available to stream?
Btw, BvS Ultimate Edition remaster will be released soon. It will be in that big IMAX ratio, not the typical flat 16:9. Can't wait to watch it.

people actually cared more if Captain America or Iron Man would die in Endgame
In 10+ years, MCU did not make me really care about Cap or Iron Man. Stark's death in Endgame felt so "jeez, let's get over with this already". Frodo leaving Sam at the end of the Fellowship left me devastated and in tears. Seeing Stark dying after 10 years of built-up was so meh.

I think non-Disney Marvel film are way better than MCU ones. Days of Future Past were incredible. Logan was really good as well. Even Deadpool 2 was more intersting and bold than any MCU flick. All these were way better than anything MCU has given us so far.

the DC version of a spectacle movie actually isn't as spectacular as a Marvel film. It's people getting thrown back-first horizontally through concrete for forty minutes
What?! Batman v Superman alone was more interesting film than all the MCU flicks combined. Watching Disney trying to make something interesting and with depth feels so awkward and laughable most of the time. I'd trade any Snyder DC film over that whole Disney franchise in an instant.

Snyder's films have that mythological larger than life epic shakespearean quality, meanwhile Avengers dine in Shawarma. MCU really feels like plebeian lowest common denominator for the whole family entertainment to me, that's the impression I got over all those years.
 
Last edited:
MCU really feels like plebeian lowest common denominator entertainment to me, that's the impression I got over all those years.
But all these teasers for the new Snyder Cut just seem like desaturated, slow-mo effects house reels. I can't get any sense of what the story is, what the characters are like, or what the film is trying to say. Maybe I've missed something obvious but everything I've seen so far looks like a 'style over substance' overload. Very happy to be proven wrong though - I've never seen any of the Justice Leagues so I'll probably watch both (all?) eventually.
 
OP
Consona

Consona

Senior Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #227
But all these teasers for the new Snyder Cut just seem like desaturated, slow-mo effects house reels. I can't get any sense of what the story is, what the characters are like, or what the film is trying to say. Maybe I've missed something obvious but everything I've seen so far looks like a 'style over substance' overload. Very happy to be proven wrong though - I've never seen any of the Justice Leagues so I'll probably watch both (all?) eventually.
Just watch it make your own opinion. What more can I say...

People using this "style over substance" phrase makes me giggle almost hysterically. People praise crap like Thor Ragnarok or mediocre flicks like Black Panther or Avengers 1, but say it's Snyder who's style over substance (and I don't mean you specifically now).

Yet, here comes Snyder, giving us incredible things like this:

Filled with symbolism and substance in every frame.
 
Last edited:

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
Filled with symbolism and substance in every frame.
I understand your perspective. This scene tugs on the emotions because it's very much how we would react if something like this actually happened. Kind of like Contact - the best part of that movie (to me) wasn't the FX or plot, but how we humans responded to such an extraordinary event. Everything was questioned - science, religion, life after death, etc.

In a way, the Avengers Endgame dilemma was even more compelling... the moral questions raised by Thanos were very complex, and he as a character was both horrifying but also very relatable at times. There were a couple moments during the movie where I could actually understand his perspective - and hated myself for it! I'm sure that was the intent of the filmmakers - the good acting also amplified that. But the 'Thanos' story was innovative - a twist in the genre I had never seen before... so I liked it for that alone.

In the end, for me all of this stuff is still just 'superhero' shit. When you have these god-like beings, it just veers into another realm of fantasy that is honestly a bit fatiguing (for me) right now. Clearly it's not that way for everyone because these movies still pull a shit-ton of box office... at least pre-COVID they did.

Loved that scene though.
 

NoamL

Winter <3
Hmm Consona you called out Thor Ragnarok twice now. I understand your criticism that it's not a very original movie, but shouldn't you acknowledge that it was kind of a risky move at the cinematic-universe scale? They allowed a guy who had never directed a blockbuster film, to significantly reinvent the Thor character, just a year before that character was going to be a core protagonist in their big series finale smashup. I think DC would be more successful if they pulled more moves like that.
 
OP
Consona

Consona

Senior Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #230
In a way, the Avengers Endgame dilemma was even more compelling... the moral questions raised by Thanos were very complex, and he as a character was both horrifying but also very relatable at times. There were a couple moments during the movie where I could actually understand his perspective - and hated myself for it! I'm sure that was the intent of the filmmakers - the good acting also amplified that. But the 'Thanos' story was innovative - a twist in the genre I had never seen before... so I liked it for that alone.
Thanos was, to me, the most interesting MCU character.

But his plan was the stupidest "plan" I've ever seen. More than some moral questions, it raised the question of why is the plan so immeselly silly?

Thanos is presented as an intelligent, thoughtful and even sensitive guy, who thinks about and meditates on things, who speaks so calmly and deliberately, a philosopher and a scientist. They show how he mourns for those he has lost, to make him more humane; they show him explaining his motives, to make his actions feel thought-through and justified...

• He wants to help people, wants life to thrive.

• He gathers the stones that give him the power to change virtually anything, in this incredibly vast ever-expanding universe.

• His thought-out plan is to kill half of all life to achieve that...

• Human population in a hospitable environment can get back from a half of its amount to the full in somewhere between one or two generations. Some animals way faster, some not, aliens would probably be akin to humans.

→ So! Thanos does all of that so in just like 30 to 50 years, the population of the whole universe is back again where it was before the snap!!!

→ AND he destroys the stones! So he can't do the snap, or anything that could actually really help, again!!!

It's sooo stupid. :/

...Seems the filmmakers fell into a trap, they wanted a highly relatable AND super-intelligently imposing villain, AND needed to make that iconic comicbook snap moment, but couldn't pull it off, making it all work together.


Also, story-wise, I thought Endgame had a huge problem because the Thanos they were against was some different guy, who had nothing to do with the events of Infinity War. It was a different person who had not made the snap, with no experience of fighting Avengers in Wakanda, killing Gamora, fighting Tony and others on Titan, etc. So in the whole 11 years/20+ films finale, they are fighting some other guy.

I really liked the second act, the time-travel part of the film, that was done really well, IMO.
The third act battle was a huge mess, with badly structured stakes and badly done sense of topology. Felt all over the place and half-baked.
Every time I see something like that, I recall Jackson's Helms Deep or Pelennor Fields, where it's all done so greatly. Disney producers and directors sure as hell we not anywhere near the Jackson's mad lad creative explosion mind during his acme.
I'm curious how will Snyder's LotR-like scenes look in his JL.

Hmm Consona you called out Thor Ragnarok twice now. I understand your criticism that it's not a very original movie, but shouldn't you acknowledge that it was kind of a risky move at the cinematic-universe scale? They allowed a guy who had never directed a blockbuster film, to significantly reinvent the Thor character, just a year before that character was going to be a core protagonist in their big series finale smashup. I think DC would be more successful if they pulled more moves like that.
Risky? They made a big budget colorful action comedy, they knew MCU fans, "film critics" and general audience will love it to death. At that point, MCU was pushed through the media as "can't do wrong" for several years, and it was all so over-hyped.
To me, it feels like people eat up anything MCU throws at them and will call it a modern masterpiece no matter how shitty it is.
I tried to rewatch Ragnarok multiple times, the story is so boring, the humor so cringy, Hela is such a bland villain. There's like 2 great scenes in a 2 hour tiresome snorefest.

And I'm saying that as someone who liked some things from Taika before he joined Disney. But this was one of the most irritating experiences I've had in a cinema.
And seeing Thor in Infinity War made me dislike Ragnarok even more. IW has easily the best portrayal of Thor in MCU, IMO.
 
OP
Consona

Consona

Senior Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #232
ZSJL-12.gif

Okay, so Snyder gave Superman This! Is! SPARTA! moment. :roflmao: This is gonna be such a wild ride. :laugh:
 
OP
Consona

Consona

Senior Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #234


Holy f******k, that amazonian war cry makes those ladies feel more awesome than all those insane badass 300 Spartans. :eek:
 
OP
Consona

Consona

Senior Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #237


Láska na první pohled   *25*
Láska na první pohled   *25*
Láska na první pohled   *25*
 

AdamKmusic

Senior Member
Full soundtrack is now out on Apple Music etc, just listening to it now I’ve missed the MoS theme! Can’t help but feel the strings sound very sample-y. I guess we’ll find out later today/this week when JXL releases his new studio time season video
 

Ahmad Ali

New Member
Full soundtrack is now out on Apple Music etc, just listening to it now I’ve missed the MoS theme! Can’t help but feel the strings sound very sample-y. I guess we’ll find out later today/this week when JXL releases his new studio time season video
It was sprinkled in many cues

here at 3:00


Dark version from BvS


Theme in its full glory


 
Last edited:
Top Bottom