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Exhausted with Finale -- is Dorico the answer?

jamwerks

Senior Member
Really? I don't remember Finale being noticeably faster in that area. What method are you using to enter text like "arco" in Dorico?
As you know Finale has the advantage of libraries of text and arts that we can assign a key to. So putting in that text is really just a one-click ordeal. In Dorico (iinm), it would be a click (on a note) then keystroke for staff text, then type "arco" (or click "arco" in the right-hand pane. Have you found a faster way?
 

Ben

VSL Support
I moved from Sibelius to Dorico when I was working on the second edition of a choral book with ~300 songs. Still was worth the effort to export and import everything, because I could directly export as printable PDF, without the need for saving everything as eps, merging in InDesign and then finalizing in Acrobat. And the score layout was way better too, without much manual work.

@JohnG : I've created a cheat-sheet for Dorico a while back. Maybe this will make it easier for you to learn the new key-commands. You can find it here: https://github.com/bbelius/notation/tree/master/Dorico2_2
 

Ben

VSL Support
You will just need the basic set with the most common short-cuts and the short-cuts for the popups. The popup input is mostly intuitive. This makes it easy to remember.
 

prodigalson

Senior Member
These are great comments.

For those who've switched, how long does it take to start moving at a decent speed?
Honestly, it only took me persevering about an hour of hands on work before I began to feel like I was actually writing music. Again, some things will seem to stump you initially and it will seem frustrating because you expect it to work like finale or sibelius but once you get a handle on the basics and how they think about notation it becames exponentially easier. And I have to say that once I got my head around a certain feature that I initially found frustrating, almost every time I realized that actually I preferred it that way.

An example: notes that are tied are considered ONE music item. i.e. move one note in a sequence of tied notes and they all move. change an accidental on one and they all change. want to add a hairpin to just one note in a sequence? good luck, the hairpin will stretch the whole sequence of notes. silly right? WHY would you ever want every single note in tied sequence to behave the same way. Well, once I figured out how to deal with that - simply hit U on one of the notes and all ties will disappear allowing you to edit as you wish - I realized just how much actually having all the notes in a tied sequence genereally behave the same way was saving me time.

But be prepared to have your google and youtube at the ready. There really isn't a huge learning curve.
 

JT

Senior Member
Really? I don't remember Finale being noticeably faster in that area. What method are you using to enter text like "arco" in Dorico?
Using Finale's metatools makes adding text quite fast.Even in the default document, pizz is assigned "p' as a metatool and arco is assigned "o". Just hold the correct letter key down and one click on a note puts it in place.
 

mducharme

Senior Member
Yes I used the metatools years ago, but I didn't have them all memorized. I used the ones for dynamics of course. I didn't start composing orchestral music until after I moved to Sibelius, so speed wasn't a big problem.

I'm not sure that Dorico is going to add anything like metatools, but the keypresses with the popovers can be decreased by shortening the popover text. For instance, you could assign pizz to "p" instead of "pizz" and then press Shift-P p ENTER ENTER to get pizz. Not quite as fast, but still saves a bit of time vs. the default entry method.

Another option that will become more interesting is the use of Macros. Currently the problem is that you can only have one Macro recorded at a time. But for instance, you can record adding the "pizz." technique as a macro and then add it to another note by choosing the option to run previous script. If they had the ability to run named scripts with hotkeys, you could create a script for each articulation, assign each one a different hotkey, and then you could very quickly add certain articulations.
 

JT

Senior Member
Another Finale shortcut that a lot of people don't know about.

Let's say you need to add "marcato" text to all woodwinds in an orchestral score. You probably won't have a metatool for marcato, so you go through the various keystrokes and add it to the top woodwind staff. Now you need to add marcato to the 11 woodwind staves.

While you're still in the expression tool with the marcato text selected, press opt-down arrow. It adds marcato to the next staff. If you hold opt-and press down arrow 11 times really fast, all the woodwinds will get that text.

Same thing works copying text from the bottom up, just use the up arrow.
 

mducharme

Senior Member
In Dorico you could copy and paste the marcato text to all 11 staves just by selecting all 11 with shift->down arrow and paste (if you copied the text at first). A little bit longer, but still reasonably fast.

The grouped/linked dynamics in Dorico save some time. I remember how much time I used to have to spend in Finale (that was with Finale 2012) aligning hairpins with dynamics.
 

JT

Senior Member
The grouped/linked dynamics in Dorico save some time. I remember how much time I used to have to spend in Finale (that was with Finale 2012) aligning hairpins with dynamics.
The TGTool Align/Move plugin aligns hairpins and dynamics quickly. I do hate Finale's aligning hairpins with specific beats. I always have to adjust them because I think they should end slightly before the barline. But once I've adjusted the first hairpin, I can right click and align all hairpins in a measure to the one I've adjusted.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
What do you think?

I usually am importing a midi or MusicXML file from Digital Performer as a starting point to orchestrate in Finale. I have been using Finale for over 20 years and its workflow remains frustratingly clumsy.

If I'm importing a MusicXML file, how is Dorico as an orchestration / parts extraction platform?

Thank you,

John
I've used Finale since 2006 and it is indeed a pain in the butt. I kind of forsook it in the past few years because I stepped up my game in writing midi. At this point I might never go back from Cubase.
 

cmillar

Active Member
I find that between the actual Dorico key commands, maybe editing a few of them, and also using 'Keyboard Maestro' in conjunction with Dorico.....that I'm able to duplicate any 'Sibelius-like' custom keystrokes I got used to. (I have an external keypad for my left hand while my right hand is on my MIDI keyboard when entering notation or when trying to do some composing right in the software.)

I created a custom (Keyboard Maestro) key command to enter/exit 'note input' mode instantly with the 'return' key (so I can switch note-input off, noodle around, and then come right back into it. And, I can use the '+' or '-' keypad keys to move the 'orange chosen note' forward or backward and then entering 'note input' instantly wherever I want. Much faster than Sibelius, and more precise.

But I also like the way Dorico has 'popups' (like for Dynamics, typing in 'shift-<' and then extending with 'shift-alt-arrow right' (and other popup commands with text as well for other functions). I'm taking the advice of others and trying to immerse myself into the Dorico 'paradigm' and retrain the brain.

Between the YouTube channel videos, the Steinberg support (...Daniel Spreadbury and the other developers are actually there to answer questions!), Facebook users group, etc......I'm off to a good start on Dorico.

Also!....so easy to find, copy, and move any key command preferences, other preferences, etc. from one computer to the other. They're where you expect to find them.... in Users/Library/Application Support....not in several different places or numerous folders. Again...just a little time saver and stress reliever.
 

SillyMidOn

Active Member
Interesting thread.

The thing that has stopped me so far from jumping from Sibelius to Dorico is that I have many, many older scores in Sibelius (and am familiar with Sibelius, even if I find it frustrating), and if I don't keep paying my subscription I will eventually not be able to open them anymore. At least it is my understanding that I cannot import Sibelius scores to Dorico (other than through Xml), or am I wrong?
 

Ben

VSL Support
Only via MusicXml (or Midi). Sibelius uses a proprietary file format, so no way they can support this (the fileformat changes after each update).
But there is a script in Sibelius to export a folder full of scores to XML. This speeds up the process.
 

mducharme

Senior Member
The TGTool Align/Move plugin aligns hairpins and dynamics quickly. I do hate Finale's aligning hairpins with specific beats. I always have to adjust them because I think they should end slightly before the barline. But once I've adjusted the first hairpin, I can right click and align all hairpins in a measure to the one I've adjusted.
Dorico has a special "end before barline" optional setting for hairpins that end on the first beat of the following bar. It can be set individually or as a global default.
 

JT

Senior Member
Dorico has a special "end before barline" optional setting for hairpins that end on the first beat of the following bar. It can be set individually or as a global default.
That does sound nice. Dorico is tempting, but all of the music production companies I work with, use Finale. I could learn Dorico now to prepare for the future, but I'm a lot older than the average VI member, I'm not sure I want to bother learning a new notation app.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
That does sound nice. Dorico is tempting, but all of the music production companies I work with, use Finale. I could learn Dorico now to prepare for the future, but I'm a lot older than the average VI member, I'm not sure I want to bother learning a new notation app.
I belong to the older ones too (58) and learning Dorico is a good experience. Keeps the brain fresh.
 
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