Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

Embedding loops into samples?

EvilDragon said:
Erm, wasn't GigaStudio the one who really defined things (direct from disk streaming, etc.)? ;) The only thing Kontakt added to the basket was scripting, really, which led to...
Click to expand...

No, it was Kontakt as Gigasampler never really took off while Kontakt did.

It's not. They just have a different vision of what it should be than you might. It's became an authoring platform rather than a creative sampler, really. Again - different vision. Want a creative sampler? Falcon is great for that (and I use it for that exact purpose too).
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter whether it's an "authoring platform" or a "creative" sampler. There's a truckload of things in Kontakt that are a straight offense to human intelligence and NI simply doesn't take care of it.
Absolutely the same (well, even worse...) for Battery which they even decided to dis-improve (and yes, in case of Battery it can even be proven by hard facts).
 
d.healey said:
Maybe you'd like HISE ;)
Click to expand...

Hm, haven't heard about that, yet (and just very briefly skimmed through the website). Would you say HISE is something for a mere enduser like me, with no (or almost no) interest in creating his own scripts and such?
Thanks for the tip, though, I will read about it a bit more!
 
HISE is at least from my perspective indeed a more developer-focused sampler, rather than end-user one. Falcon would be a better end-user sampler. Or, if you actually really want to sample as well (and have a pretty darn in-depth wavetable engine with different ways of creating your own wavetables), then HALion 6.

Sascha Franck said:
There's a truckload of things in Kontakt that are a straight offense to human intelligence and NI simply doesn't take care of it.
Click to expand...

Really, a truckload? OK now you got me interested. Please PM me that truckload and let's continue there.
 
EvilDragon said:
Really, a truckload? OK now you got me interested. Please PM me that truckload and let's continue there.
Click to expand...

I may even think about doing that. But then, plenty of these very things should already be in NIs posession since years. In addition, most of them are wellknown anyway.
 
You know how it goes, years pass, team structure and objectives change...

Please do PM me. We've offtopicked enough I agree :)
 
Last edited:
Sascha Franck said:
Would you say HISE is something for a mere enduser like me, with no (or almost no) interest in creating his own scripts and such?
Click to expand...
No, definitely not. And actually now I think about it, I'm not sure it's any different to Kontakt in terms of embedding loops in Wav files.
 
Saying a sampler should destructively edit samples is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a sampler is.

Yes, they can implement it, and some others do.

Is it useful? No. Any serious audio editor will not be using a sampler to do their editing work. Adding the destructive embed of loop points will be time that their dev team wastes instead of spending that time addressing things that developers like us are asking for.
 
Last edited:
neblix said:
Saying a sampler should destructively edit samples is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a sampler is.

Yes, they can implement it, and some others do.

Is it useful? No. Any serious audio editor will not be using a sampler to do their editing work. Adding the destructive embed of loop points will be time that their dev team wastes instead of spending that time addressing things that developers like us are asking for.
Click to expand...

I totally disagree.
First off: Who said Kontakt was just made for "developers like you"?
Next: I already said so, checking out loop points within a sampler is incredibly more efficient because you can already listen to them while playing.
Further: Once the loop points are set in a sampler, it should be a rather trivial task to save them to the file.
 
Sascha Franck said:
I totally disagree.
First off: Who said Kontakt was just made for "developers like you"?
Next: I already said so, checking out loop points within a sampler is incredibly more efficient because you can already listen to them while playing.
Further: Once the loop points are set in a sampler, it should be a rather trivial task to save them to the file.
Click to expand...

C'mon now. Sample editors go back decades to when sampling was done on hardware and I still use tons of current stuff where I wish they had the tools a proper sample editor had. And are you suggesting a developer making instruments with tens of thousands of samples don't use tools like a sample editor that allow them to automate the process???
 
Last edited:
jcrosby said:
C'mon now. Sample editors go back decades to when sampling was done on hardware and I still use tons of current stuff where I wish they had the tools of a sample editor. (Which IMO is equally questionable.)
Click to expand...

Well, back in the days, sample editing was often done on samplers, especially when it comes to loop point editing. And when you load some old AKAI files, you will find that they have their loop points embedded, set straight inside the sampler. So what's your point?

In terms of Kontakt: You're telling me you'd prefer to manually set the loop point of multiple samples in a patch even if you could do it sample accurately in a program specifically intended to edit samples?
Click to expand...

I'm setting my loop points manually anyway (fwiw, I'm not talking about any kind of automated looping process for big chunks of orchestral recordings or whatsoever). And when it comes to that, having realtime control about how the loop points work when actually playing them (especially on pitched notes) is absolutely great.

While you're at it feel free to enlighten Omnisphere users on the built in to Omnisphere that allow you to define loop points with user imported audio.
Click to expand...

I don't use Omnisphere and have no idea what it's got to do with this.
 
OK so:

Mario is right - if you are looking for a more end-user focused - but very powerful sampler solution then Falcon would better fit your bill.

You are right - Kontakt development has been woefully slow for many many years and NI haven't spent much time listening to the developer community - which is probably why a bunch of major players are moving to other platforms.

Mario is right - Kontakt is the most popular platform - so more commercial libraries are on it right now

Dave is right HISE is a much more developer focused platform. But compared to every other platform its development progress is outstanding. But it has a way to catch up so not a surprise there.

You decide what counts for you and go with that.
 
So, in a nutshell: NI is ignoring both end user and developer requests. Nothing new here, really. And quite a shame.

Anyhow, back to topic. I'm getting things done pretty quickly in Wavelab and wish there was a batch looping functionality as I noticed that the same settings work fine when dealing with similar files.
 
Last edited:
Actually no, NI has been quite receptive to a pretty solid number of developer requests in the past 4 or so years. We've got floating point math in KSP (huge request for a very long time), XY pads, a lot of 3rd party developers also requested better delay, reverb and modulation effects (all done in K6), and also dropping in user samples onto scripted GUIs was a pretty big request by a number of developers (and actually, a solid number of users) too.

So... I think it's quite unfair to say they are ignoring feature requests.
 
Last edited:
EvilDragon said:
Actually no, NI has been quite receptive to a pretty solid number of developer requests in the past few years. We've got floating point math (huge request for a very long time), XY pads, a lot of 3rd party developers also requested better delay, reverb and modulation effects (all done in K6), and also dropping in user samples onto scripted GUIs was a pretty big request by a number of developers too.

So... I think it's quite unfair to say they are ignoring feature requests.
Click to expand...
Here we go again....

NI ignored every one of my requests, and apparently nearly every one of Spitfires too...as I recall there was a fair number of things you've been asking for for several years that haven't shown up - and you work for Native Instruments.......
 
They don't have to accept each and every request everyone makes, that is of course unrealistic - understandable, no? But a good number of my feature requests has actually been implemented in fact (even before I started working for NI as a freelancer).

For the record, what were your requests?
 
Good, I'm glad that happened for you. What I was alluding to was the *pace* of change - yes they've done stuff, a lot of the things you mentioned are in K5+ but earlier than this? not so much. YMMV.

Sorry missed your second question: my biggest request was loadable/savable groups.
 
Last edited:
Indeed there were slow periods before Kontakt 5.5 or so, but things have ramped up considerably since then, this is pretty apparent.

Still interested to hear what were your requests. Maybe there are good reasons why they weren't taken on that's not "we don't have time/other stuff is greater prio".


Also, just because I'm closer to NI now doesn't mean they listen to me more. Well, not in every case ;)
 
EvilDragon said:
Indeed there were slow periods before Kontakt 5.5 or so, but things have ramped up considerably since then, this is pretty apparent.

Still interested to hear what were your requests. Maybe there are good reasons why they weren't taken on that's not "we don't have time/other stuff is greater prio".


Also, just because I'm closer to NI now doesn't mean they listen to me more. Well, not in every case ;)
Click to expand...
yeah Im sure. - As I said the biggest thing I wanted was loadable/saveable/unloadable groups.

This is exactly what HISE does out of the box with sample maps...and it makes a massive difference to what can get done.

...oh and a proper scripting environment where I can do string manipulation/comparison....
 
Last edited:
String operations are a strict no-no in realtime audio thread (which is where KSP is running all the time), though... Maybe if they are made async, but that just makes it meh in actual usage.

User zones are actually quite useful if you need dynamic soundsources (so that your instruments don't take up a bunch of groups when you could just have 2 or 4 etc.). Some instruments using them in exactly this manner are actually being developed (P. N. is doing one). The only thing is, there's a max of 512 user zones, so for more elaborate instruments it's not enough. However this is not a hard limit in the engine and could be increased at a later date.


(And yes, I very much do agree with that request for loading keymaps or whole groups from external files, would be neat for sure!)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom