EastWest pianos?

[borisb2]

I personally find the newer, more modern higher-end products are a lot more responsive

yes and no .. I'm using NI Noire all the time - its one of those perfect brilliant and clean modern piano-VIs - perfect transitions and deep sampled .. but it doesnt have the character of the Bechstein or Boesendorfer from EW or Ravenscroft 275 .. if I would compare transitions and dynamic layers, Noire would easily win against EW-pianos .. but if I look for a specific, edgy character in the sound, EW pianos are in my favorites - even if they are 50 years old

I remember sampling my own piano on an Akai S3000 .. but then again, that had only 1 dynamic layer

 

[Robert_G]

I'm actually confused. As a life long pianist (40 years +), how can anyone here play the EW pianos and either not notice the horrible dynamic transitions, or just somehow be ok with them???
Anyone of us....if we sat down to an acoustic that transitions between dynamics like the EW pianos do would never play that acoustic piano again. How do VI pianos that have horrible dynamic transitions get a pass?

Or maybe some of you just set the velocity min/max somewhere in the middle and leave it there and play it like that at one volume/dynamic?
That was my biggest complaint, the lower velocities are all muddy and then when you hit it just a hair harder it sounds like you are slamming the keyboard. The transitions suck...

 

[2chris]

• For felt piano, the OA toolkit by spitfire is THE OA sound. So this has to be the top choice. While expensive if all you want is the piano, the other stuff is quite good so it’s not like it’s just a piano. When they do a sale it’s a decent value.
• I am a big fan of NI Noire. It’s not cheap, but I challenge you to find a library with this nice of a piano, sampled this well, that’s playable, with lots of great presets and flexibility, and has both a felt a traditional sound. I prefer this to OA toolkit because this is more versatile and deeper sampled. You have to play with the velocity dynamics, but once you lock in it’s oh so good.
• NI UNA CORDA. This is not a traditional felt sound. It’s more delicate. Check it out.
• On the cheap, spitfire felt is $30. I haven’t tried it but it seems worthy of the price. How do you go wrong at $30?
• Frozen Piano sounds pretty amazing. I haven’t tried this so don’t take my word, but if I buy another piano library this will probably be it. There are good video walkthroughs and review on YouTube.
  
  Also, check out pianobook.co.uk because they have some free pianos that sound great...

 

[CGR]

I'm actually confused. As a life long pianist (40 years +), how can anyone here play the EW pianos and either not notice the horrible dynamic transitions, or just somehow be ok with them???
Anyone of us....if we sat down to an acoustic that transitions between dynamics like the EW pianos do would never play that acoustic piano again. How do VI pianos that have horrible dynamic transitions get a pass?

Or maybe some of you just set the velocity min/max somewhere in the middle and leave it there and play it like that at one volume/dynamic?
That was my biggest complaint, the lower velocities are all muddy and then when you hit it just a hair harder it sounds like you are slamming the keyboard. The transitions suck...

I agree with your criticisms. The EWQL pianos are an exercise in frustration for a pianist, especially someone like myself who has grown up on acoustic pianos. Despite the substantial playability & consistency issues, they have a tone & character that for me (and quite a few others from what I read here) work very well in context of a production.

If I want an enjoyable and controllable experience playing a sampled/virtual piano, there's literally dozens of others I'd turn to first, but sometimes in a track I'm producing, the unique full bodied character of the EWQL pianos just hit the spot tone-wise.

 

[CGR]

Is there no velocity curve? The Bosendorfer sounds like it has a unique sound but everyone warns that it's unplayable.

I don't understand how velocities could be messed up though since even the most basic libraries translate velocity with ease. Is the problem the samples?

There is a velocity curve, but it's a very blunt tool, and nowhere near the flexibility of other sampled piano's built in velocity curve controls (such as Impact Soundworks Pearl Concert Grand, C.Bechstein Digital Grand, Embertone Walker D etc.)

 

[Divico]

I'm actually confused. As a life long pianist (40 years +), how can anyone here play the EW pianos and either not notice the horrible dynamic transitions, or just somehow be ok with them???
Anyone of us....if we sat down to an acoustic that transitions between dynamics like the EW pianos do would never play that acoustic piano again. How do VI pianos that have horrible dynamic transitions get a pass?

Or maybe some of you just set the velocity min/max somewhere in the middle and leave it there and play it like that at one volume/dynamic?
That was my biggest complaint, the lower velocities are all muddy and then when you hit it just a hair harder it sounds like you are slamming the keyboard. The transitions suck...

+1 to this. While having a nice sound, they feel really bad, and eat lots of memory.

 

[Rob]

I'm actually confused. As a life long pianist (40 years +), how can anyone here play the EW pianos and either not notice the horrible dynamic transitions, or just somehow be ok with them???
Anyone of us....if we sat down to an acoustic that transitions between dynamics like the EW pianos do would never play that acoustic piano again. How do VI pianos that have horrible dynamic transitions get a pass?

Or maybe some of you just set the velocity min/max somewhere in the middle and leave it there and play it like that at one volume/dynamic?
That was my biggest complaint, the lower velocities are all muddy and then when you hit it just a hair harder it sounds like you are slamming the keyboard. The transitions suck...

I have the Boesendorfer and love it... sound has a wonderful fullness and not much issues here as far as playability.

 

[Ashermusic]

I have the Boesendorfer and love it... sound has a wonderful fullness and not much issues here as far as playability.

While I now have others I prefer, I too have no problem with the sound or playability for what I do. If I was trying to perform a Chopin Ballade, I might.

 

[CGR]

I have the Boesendorfer and love it... sound has a wonderful fullness and not much issues here as far as playability.

I think the Bosendorfer is the pick of the 3 pianos - a dark & warm sounding model 290, and the close mics in particular in the Platinum version have a beautiful tone. The Bechstein really has some mojo (great for pop & blues) and the Steinway a real singing quality in the treble.

Even though they have playability issues for me, it's not enough to stop me from using them fairly regularly, and I find a little MIDI "massaging" afterwards can help alleviate some problems. I treat these as more "Production" sampled pianos, and I'm happy to have them in my toolbox! I turn to others (or a real acoustic) if I want to practice technique, or perform live.

 

[Guffy]

I really wish Hans would have used Alicia's Keys instead of the Malmsjø on Inception. It has so much better smoothness and response!

 

[CGR]

OK, this thread has piqued my interest to call up the EWQL pianos again (it's been a few months). Here's some simple soft playing with the Bosendorfer 290 - mix of Close mics at 0db + Player mics at -3.0db. Captured as played on a fully weighted Yamaha keyboard, with no MIDI editing afterwards. Listen to the depth of that low A on the ending chord!

 

[emid]

Coincidentally, I just came across this free felt piano today. I don't know the playability or how good it is as I haven't downloaded it yet. Could be a good option for layering? Check this out.

 

[CGR]

. . . as a comparison, here's the same bit of playing with the EWQL C.Bechstein (same mic mix):

 

[CGR]

Last one. Playing a little Herbie Hancock groove with the EWQL C.Bechstein. Captured as played with no MIDI fixing afterwards. A few notes jump out here & there but pretty good to play!

 

[Quantum Leap]

I'm actually confused. As a life long pianist (40 years +), how can anyone here play the EW pianos and either not notice the horrible dynamic transitions, or just somehow be ok with them???
Anyone of us....if we sat down to an acoustic that transitions between dynamics like the EW pianos do would never play that acoustic piano again. How do VI pianos that have horrible dynamic transitions get a pass?

Or maybe some of you just set the velocity min/max somewhere in the middle and leave it there and play it like that at one volume/dynamic?
That was my biggest complaint, the lower velocities are all muddy and then when you hit it just a hair harder it sounds like you are slamming the keyboard. The transitions suck...

As the creator of QL Pianos, I have a few comments:

1. I recently bought some newer pianos because of some comments that some of the new stuff was a big step up. I just didn’t find that to be true. Lots of good reasons to have lots of pianos to get tonal variety, but technology advancing? Not really That much. The tech is only advanced in the modeled pianos. QL pianos has stuff that most new pianos don’t, like repetitions performances samples.
2. Your controller is incredibly important. A poor controller can make a piano library seem off. QL pianos has true 127 slammed piano samples. You should almost never be triggering those. If you are, set your sequencer or controller to send out slightly lower velocities. You can also limit the velocity to 125 in play.
3. After adding some new pianos to my template I went back to QL pianos and did some tweaks. Use the close mics with the stage mics or the close mics with the surrounds. Close mics should be slightly softer than the stage or surround. Change the sensitivity setting from a concave curve to a slightly convex curve.
4. QLP has soft pedal samples by the way. Generally the softer samples in QLP are noisy if you turn up the piano very loud and play very soft Dynamics. So QLP is not good for this type of use.
5. QLP has plenty of flaws, but I don’t think I would trade that for a sterile piano. But I suppose a particular piece of music can always expose something. For those of you that have played real concert grands, you may have noticed that many of them have plenty of flaws and are in need of service. Some of us have gotten used to Roland and Yamaha digital pianos. They are great, but they aren’t real pianos.
6. Please point me to some of the most kickass newer pianos, because I recently updated my template and would like to add a new piano or two. I just want dynamic grand pianos that are not too bright

 

[Quantum Leap]

Also!!! The new Mac Pro is insane. I went from 7 computers to one. The Dream is finally here and play works great.

 

[CGR]

2. Your controller is incredibly important. A poor controller can make a piano library seem off. QL pianos has true 127 slammed piano samples. You should almost never be triggering those. If you are, set your sequencer or controller to send out slightly lower velocities. You can also limit the velocity to 125 in play.

A really important point for any sampled piano. Also, monitor your playing as close as possible to the volume levels a real acoustic puts out (which is often louder than many people realise). Monitoring too quietly can result in slamming the keys and triggering higher velocities too often, resulting in a harsh & unnatural sound.

 

[Ashermusic]

Hey Nick, good to see you posting again.

 

[Leon Portelance]

I have the QL pianos but never use them. I use Wavesfactory Mercury the most and sometimes the Black Grand.

 

[Fleer]

Got many piano libraries but I’m still quite fond of the QL ones. Great character.