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EastWest Hollywood Orchestra on sale at $372! What's the rub?

river angler

Senior Member
My first ever post here!...
(Please forgive its length!)

I am a pro composer/songwriter/musician working mainly in film/TV.

I was about to post this thread under a different heading when I noticed EastWest have Hollywood Orchestra bundled with its Hollywood Solo Instruments libraries now on sale for an astonishing $372 ! Hence the title: "What's the rub?"! I suspect at this give-away price they must be imminently releasing a new orchestral library no?

For over a year now I have been deliberating investing in Spitfire's Symphonic Orchestra Complete package.

For longer than I'd care to admit I have been working with Miroslav Philharmonik (original) and the basic Kontakt library for most of my classical scoring mock-ups and occasional mastered projects. However, as much as I have grown used to a certain way of working round their limitations I am now increasingly finding the amount of that work needed to get my compositions to decent presentable form for my clients on time is now proving too stressful to achieve.

Yes! you may well wonder why I have never upgraded from these libraries who's samples are well over a decade old! Call me a luddite! but I guess I'm just one of those musicians/composers who upgrades majorly in one fair swoop rather than jump on the bandwagon of increasingly frequent plugin product releases. Also I've always been a believer that working with less tools brings out the best in a composer and accordingly have invested in quality studio kit over the years that captures what I write well but least interferes with the creative writing process.

One of this Miroslav/Kontakt combo's weak points is that their samples dynamic layers and levels of crossfading between those layers when composing on the fly are rather limited. The abrupt jump in timbre between velocity 89 and 90 in the Kontakt brass patches for example has always been a frustrating one to deal with both when playing in and editing an arrangement. Then there is the lack of true legato patches that more often than not forces my having to employ various time consuming tricks to make the arrangements sit musically. Oh! yes! and my peers have often reminded me how I have also overlooked the fact that I have grown too used to spending quite some time blending mixtures of instruments from both libraries in the overall ambient mix!

A lot of things I mention here hint to production technique topics no doubt well covered in generously informative forums such as this one but things that I have been urged to address fortunately only by my peer composer friends and not by my clients!... well.. so far!

Recently I spent a week on my own at a friends studio trying out East West Hollywood Orchestra composing fresh music and transcribing some already written pieces of mine. Of course I immediately heard the difference in playability and the greater range of articulations was in another league, needless to say sonically the samples themselves are recorded with greater sonic fidelity plus one has full control over mics and stereo placement. However during that week I found HO needed quite a lot of work during the more subtle musical passages where longer samples are exposed to get them to sound close to how I wanted them to sound. I found the Player 5 engine tricky to work with: a trait I have heard grumbled about from many others! I could get used to it of course but even during the intense week I spent working with HO I couldn't help feeling that the end result for these quieter pieces didn’t sound as good as I had hoped. For these, lets say, non-bombastic orchestral arrangements, I found the overall impression a little underwhelming. I was left feeling that either I need a lot more time to tame this library into a way of working quicker with it within this area of slower, more sensitive composition, or that the problem lies inherent in its samples that may have been recorded too precisely for my taste. Perhaps something in the style of the musicians they used to make those samples and how they blend together is just not doing it for me…?

Unfortunately I have not yet had a chance to test out Spitfire's Symphonic Orchestra Complete package. However from the vast amount of compositions and tutorials I have heard Spitfire Audio samples do seem to sound more "musical" to my ears and for want of a better phrase, a little "warmer" in character especially for slow tempo composition. This impression must be born from the kind of musicians they used to record those samples, maybe because the samples aren't derived from a commercial "Hollywood Film" pedigree. Spitfire samples, tonally, seem to have a subtle nuance to them hence a less clinical overall feel. A lot of this may also be down to the sonics of the Air Lyndhurst Hall compared to a conventional, if large, recording studio live room where EastWest recorded theirs. I have always had the impression that EastWest gear their orchestral products toward the big commercial Hollywood scene/music production and as such I have yet to come across a demo not touting the generic Hollywood movie score, revealing instead a more sensitive use of its orchestral libraries.

As much as the pursuit of one’s own individual style as a composer is generated from the actual content one writes I am keen to acquire the most musically versatile sounding complete orchestral package I can find to work with. Of course a composer always makes the best of the tools he has in front of him as I have endeavoured to do all these years with Miroslav and Kontakt! No doubt getting used to Spitfire or EastWest on my part could yield the right results eventually once I found my own efficient methods of taming either to my needs: I just don't want to find myself in a similar position I am currently where potential pitfalls in the design of a library force me to spend precious time amending things: time a composer can no longer afford in this modern age where us composers are increasingly asked to work under such short deadlines! However despite such a plethora of choice out there and so many of these libraries capable of great results in the right hands, for straight orchestral work, it doesn't make sense to me to blend different manufacturers libraries so I'm keen to plum for one or the other manufacturer. Time is money and I now must upgrade to the most appropriate choice regardless of how much or little it costs.

I have considered other companies like Orchestral Tools but have decided to limit my choice to these two for my own sanity! but more seriously if only because they now both offer all the other orchestrally related expansion libraries.

Hence if any readers here have recently migrated to Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra/Complete from having been regular Hollywood Orchestral users OR VICE VERSA why did they do so?

I'm sure other composers here perhaps in a similar position as myself would also be intrigued to read comments from users of EastWest Hollywood Orchestra in the professional field who have been satisfied using this package for more subtle composition rather than the myriad of "Hollywood-esque" compositions one can listen to ad infinitum on Youtube!

I'm curious to gauge what the general consensus is regarding Hollywood Strings as a versatile full orchestral package especially now in the light of it's current super low asking price!

Anybody chiming in much appreciated!
 
No catch.

Play Engine is poop. I've heard the winds/perc are only okay. Aside from that, it's a bargain.

IMO if you want ultimate detail, you'd be looking at either VSL or Orchestral Tools, but I hope you got $$$$$$
 
No catch.

Play Engine is poop. I've heard the winds/perc are only okay. Aside from that, it's a bargain.

IMO if you want ultimate detail, you'd be looking at either VSL or Orchestral Tools, but I hope you got $$$$$$
Hi Simon,

Thanks for your post!

Yes! indeed VSL samples have always sounded fantastic! The Kontakt samples are of course VSL and I've always enjoyed working with them over the years (bar the limitations in the Kontakt player!). As for Orchestral tools I've always found them initially impressive but somehow too polished, not in the same way as EastWest, but somehow a little too perfect. Having said all this I'm only judging on what I've heard: like Spitfire, I have yet to try either out for myself.

I think it's actually insulting to a composers intelligence for an orchestral library manufacturer to expect a professional composer to trust reviews and demos on the net before investing heavily in their products. They all go to great lengths to show off their libraries functionality yet don't seem to acknowledge that a composer needs to see how that functionality works within his or her own workflow before deciding. I've read so many posts about composers who have regretted buying this or that library only to rue not having had the chance to try for buying. All these companies should offer some kind of trial version!
 
Hmm I wouldn't say OT are overly polished. I own the Symphonic ranges of both Spitfire & Orchestral Tools, and for detailed writing I much prefer OT.

I was an avid VSL user but I spent more time trying to mix than write, so I gave up on them. Still own them for whenever I need a small ensemble sound.

As I said in my other post though, for the money Hollywood Orchestra is a steal.
 
Just speculating, but I would guess that, for such a low price, they are offering only a single mic position?
 
How much were Hollywood Strings when they were released, $1100?
I think I remember Brass being $1200.

I respectfully disagree with SimonCharles, EastWests Hollywood Orchestra is every bit as good if not better than VSL or Orchestral Tools. It goes without saying each has different sound and feel.
 
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Just speculating, but I would guess that, for such a low price, they are offering only a single mic position?

It says that's the price for the Diamond edition for sure! which as far as I have read includes all mic positions no?
 
How much were Hollywood Strings when they were released, $1100?
I think I remember Brass being $1200.

I respectfully disagree with SimonCharles, EastWests Hollywood Orchestra is every bit as good if not better than VSL or Orchestral Tools. It goes without saying each has different sound and feel.
Yes - I was thinking mostly about the rest of the range (not strings) in my post.

Brass can achieve the fantastic results too, but imo, having each player like VSL and OT do is powerful.
 
It says that's the price for the Diamond edition for sure! which as far as I have read includes all mic positions no?

yes. diamond is the biggest package and you will get all mic positions. for that price you cannot go wrong. it will take some time to learn how to use it, but its worth it.
 
yes. diamond is the biggest package and you will get all mic positions. for that price you cannot go wrong. it will take some time to learn how to use it, but its worth it.
Hollywood Orchestra is a great value. The Strings and Brass are probably the best part about it, the perc being 2nd and with the winds in dead last.
Thanks for all your posts! most encouraging! ...how is HO for the more ethereal, gentle, more delicate arrangements? Perhaps someone can post a link to a "non Hollywood style demo" ?...As I mentioned in my OP I have yet to hear demos away from that typical Hollywood style which tends to lend a rather "in your face" vibe even in the relatively quieter parts of these arrangements. I'm not really hinting at chamber type demos but more concerned about slower pieces where the longer sample lengths are exposed. In that week I had with HO I struggled to get satisfactory results with slower composition.
 
Thanks for all your posts! most encouraging! ...how is HO for the more ethereal, gentle, more delicate arrangements? Perhaps someone can post a link to a "non Hollywood style demo" ?...As I mentioned in my OP I have yet to hear demos away from that typical Hollywood style which tends to lend a rather "in your face" vibe even in the relatively quieter parts of these arrangements. I'm not really hinting at chamber type demos but more concerned about slower pieces where the longer sample lengths are exposed. In that week I had with HO I struggled to get satisfactory results with slower composition.



more on the channel where you can hear lots of hollywood orchestra.

 
Yes - I was thinking mostly about the rest of the range (not strings) in my post.

Brass can achieve the fantastic results too, but imo, having each player like VSL and OT do is powerful.

Oh I see what you were saying. Yes, then I agree. Woodwinds and Percussion I feel aren't as high a quality as the Strings and Brass. WW and Perc are damn good, but Strings and Brass are stellar.
 
I don't use Hollywood Orchestra as much as I used to due to some newer libraries (CSS, Berlin Brass/Woodwinds), but for the price on sale I don't think anything else comes close (Actually I still use the percussion heavily now that I think about it).

Here's some of my older tracks that are on the soft end, and use almost entirely Hollywood Strings and Brass (woodwinds are mostly Albion I though, EastWest's woodwinds are definitely the weakest section):



 
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They've been running it at around this price on occasional sale. I got it for this price earlier. Diamond edition, full samples and all the mic positions. And I don't know about the woodwinds supposing to sound poorly, I'm a former professional clarinetist who sat in the woodwind section for many years, they sound absolutely wonderful to me. Shockingly close to the real thing, indeed I usually just use samples rather than record myself because it's easier and is as good.

The ones I struggle with are the strings, but then a group of string players doesn't sound good depending on the hall and the recording anyhow, so that's fair. At root you're dragging sandpaper across a string, gang them together and it becomes difficult to get to sound good, or maybe it's just my ears.
 
Hollywood Strings is a beast of a library and takes time to get to know. It still holds up incredibly well to current string offerings. Hollywood Brass still sounds excellent - the 6 FH patches in particular and I have a certain love for the low brass ensemble patches. Hollywood Orch Woodwinds is the weakest out of the lot - they are now layering instruments behind my VSL woodwinds. Hollywood Percussion is a good percussion section. If nothing else it is an excellent package which you can add additional instruments from other devs to plug any holes (most of the woodwinds for me - though you may like them).

I bought HS/HB Gold when HB was released....... $372 for Hollywood Orchestra Diamond is a fantastic price for what you get.

I have CCX which means I get the close mics as well - they add some lovely bite to the strings and brass in particular.
 
As far as i remember it was offered on sale for $599 last November and that was already quite a good deal.
Ive had the gold versions forever and figured this would be my chance to get everything diamond. The strings are imo one of the best.
 
I don't use Hollywood Orchestra as much as I used to due to some newer libraries (CSS, Berlin Brass/Woodwinds), but for the price on sale I don't think anything else comes close (Actually I still use the percussion heavily now that I think about it).

Here's some of my older tracks that are on the soft end, and use almost entirely Hollywood Strings and Brass (woodwinds are mostly Albion I though, EastWest's woodwinds are definitely the weakest section):




Jeremiah, What superlative compositions! I think what this shows is that EastWests samples can certainly be made to sound excellent but that excellence is solely down to the composer not the samples themselves. One could say this for any libraries samples but to be fair to EastWest I think the fact that their samples don't have too much room ambience baked in to them lends greater potential perspective when it comes to mixing.
 
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