Can you recommend a Counterpoint checking tool?
- Thread starter JimDiGritz
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OP
OP
JimDiGritz
Senior Member
Sadly looks like all the Musescore plugins are deprecated and most only work in MS 2.x
David Cuny
Grand Poobah, Royal Order of WordBuilders
Some time back, I created a simple web-based JavaScript program that would analyze note progressions (limited to quarter notes and C major) and list "errors". It's basically a toy program:
I found it almost impossible to write more than two beats in a row without introducing some sort of "error" or another.
I gave up before dealing with additional code complexity (like key signatures or different note durations), but learned that that strict counterpoint wasn't for me.
I found it almost impossible to write more than two beats in a row without introducing some sort of "error" or another.
I gave up before dealing with additional code complexity (like key signatures or different note durations), but learned that that strict counterpoint wasn't for me.
ALittleNightMusic
Professional Amateur
Sibelius had a plugin for parallel fifths and octaves. Dorico doesn't have anything of the sort, but it has been requested in the forums.
OP
OP
JimDiGritz
Senior Member
Sounds like a challenge!!Some time back, I created a simple web-based JavaScript program that would analyze note progressions (limited to quarter notes and C major) and list "errors". It's basically a toy program:
I found it almost impossible to write more than two beats in a row without introducing some sort of "error" or another.
I gave up before dealing with additional code complexity (like key signatures or different note durations), but learned that that strict counterpoint wasn't for me.
That said, not sure my fragile ego could handle a cat knowing more about Second Species Counterpoint than I do!!!!
David Cuny
Grand Poobah, Royal Order of WordBuilders
Well, you can also choose ClippySounds like a challenge!!
That said, not sure my fragile ego could handle a cat knowing more about Second Species Counterpoint than I do!!!!
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OP
OP
JimDiGritz
Senior Member
Well, you can also choose Clippy
Emanuel Fróes
Senior Member
Well....
I just say two things: 1) I passed the entrance exam in music thery at Mozarteum (where ou write a fugue exposition=) after giving up from Fux and focusing on what my teacher said, who was organist. 2) I concluded my degree on first attempt without Fux in the whole study. In the final exam I had to write a 4 part fugue for a given subject, among other things. 3) I have a student that i teached at the conservatory, and now private, that does very well without Fux. You see the example below.
Can you improvise 1 to 1 counterpoint over this melody below getting the right clauses ? If not, I would focus more on this and on the skill of focusing more on what you want, what you CAN do, than what you are not allowed to do (this is the consequence of the Fux method, no?)
The traditional students in their majority learned counterpoint very well in the paper, but their music is not relevant: you do´t know them. Few learned counterpoint in some way, that people want to hear them. For example: students of Nadja Boulanger (BOulez), and Marcel Dupre (Messiaen). In this case the teacher did not say what is wrong and right; or better said: even if it was said, this was NOT the point. The point was the understanding of how the "engine" works".Historically and aesthetically. SO, for example, Diether De La Motte is the most influential music theorist of the last decades in Austria/Germany, and does not even mention Fux in his book, more than in one historical side note.
Schoenberg used the method of Fux in his book. Correct. But for this Schoenberg comes with 500 pages dedicated to understanding of the concept of musical logic. Is FUx then goo? It is in this sense; it is easy to get wrong with this method. I did. I did alone quite all Schoenberg exercises, in all clefs, before my first formal study in music (bachelor in piano performance) . Did this helped me ? Helped me to get bad habits.
If you need an app for this level of work, this means you need a teacher to give substance to your "self-taught feedback". If you don´t need the app, then it is probably a distraction. There is a lot in music " the classic way" still.
Just don´t be confused about this: the app in itself is awesome if it corrects according to Fux and you are learning music theory, principally if you are goingo to teach theory. IN this sense, I find interesting. But artistically, I suggest to do Fux in a more direct and relaxed way until 4 against 1 , or 3 part 1 to 1, and then learn in a different way, principally analysing JOsquin de Pres and Palestrina (if you like to be strict...be it...)
So, this is my opnion, as teacher of church music composition, choir conductor, and former titular organist ; ) If you need, just send some exercises to me on dm
* I have here mayn many exercises that the romantic composer Rheinberger wrote. They focus on techniques of counterpoint; not rules from Fux. They are just superficially similar to Fux approach ; they can be the same sometimes, but important is to understand the musical frame of exercises, and that we are in other historical time and needs. We have other pedagogy; sometimes the "archaic" or platonic pedagogy that maybe Fux missed , in his "enlightment". In my estimate, Fux is famous and got loved by schools because it makes easier to teach, organize, and punish. As a teacher , it is easier to teach by especies. Hard is to go in circles. BUt the artistical progress - altough it is not a vicious circle - it is an espiral ( if not a complex set of circular motions); you go back, you jump over one part, you repeat the same but faster, etc... So is the perfection.
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Cletus McBone
(aka: R.G.)
How are you studying it in the first place, and towards what ultimate goal?
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Out of a text book and it's accompanying workbook. It's not impossible to verify against the many rules for each CP species..was just hoping for something more immediate feedback wise. I did find a decent online tool for first species.
My aim is to gradually build up competency in 5th species and chorale style just to add another dimension to my compositions (film scoring is the ultimate goal)
