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BAN Berlin International Film Scoring Competition (BIFSC)

Scalms

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well, sorry some don't believe me here. I speak the truth. I guess it's your prerogative to not believe me. I don't have any affiliation with that organization. I don't have any affiliation with anyone really, lol. And if people are adamant that they asked for feedback and didn't get, I don't have any reason to not believe it. Sorry that happened to you, they sound frustrated. Actually, when I requested feedback I wasn't expecting any reply and figured it was just a shot in the dark, but was impressed they took the time to get back to me.
 
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DanniDo

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Although I follow the forum posts regularly, I have registeered today to reply. First of, the dialogues for the last sound design compeition are totally unacceptable and break the rules. if you ask me this was the way to make winners their own buddies. second i have asked for feedback and got the silence treatment. i read here people say they asked and got feeedback, with all respect i do not believe you and you sound like someone who is related to that organization. i gave 40 euros [late enttry] to get nothing back and on top of that i read here and other places that we can not use the film for our social media pages or reel. looking forward for hte documentary.
Sorry to hear all that, but as I have mentioned above you are not alone and we have seen the evidence of people being ignored. Thank you for your comments which add to the bigger picture.
 
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DanniDo

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well, sorry some don't believe me here. I speak the truth. I guess it's your prerogative to not believe me. I don't have any affiliation with that organization. I don't have any affiliation with anyone really, lol. And if people are adamant that they asked for feedback and didn't get, I don't have any reason to not believe it. Sorry that happened to you, they sound frustrated. Actually, when I requested feedback I wasn't expecting any reply and figured it was just a shot in the dark, but was impressed they took the time to get back to me.
I did not say we do not believe you; I said your comment is without evidence. If you want, you can submit the evidence and it will be in support for BIFSC, but nobody said you have to. But until we see that evidence, your claim is hearsay, and we work on the basis of critical thinking and facts. You are aware of people saying this or that and have no evidence in this time of human history, right? Having said all that, we have no reason to not believe you as a person in any case, and saying "you could be affiliated" was to make a point an anonymous claim means nothing to an investigation and could be coming from anywhere. Don't take it personally please, this is not what this is about. On the contrary this is about protecting you and others from taking your hard earned money and just giving it to someone who all they did was to make a webpage.

Still, if you are happy what you paid form, this is you. People pay money for lot of things and have different opinion about it, as not everyone likes the same level of service. Someone here said they are happy they buy a 3 minutes footage for 30 euro, if that makes them happy, cool. The problem here is the illusion those web events create and the zero work they do. If you were to get 300k euro, to only make a list of 10 people nobody can get in touch with and then just give feedback here and there so few people say they got something, I afraid this is a scam, and while we want to investigate this practise with BIFSC (because that is what started it when we were approached), it is part of a wider issue with online competitions that needs a crack down of some sort.

The point on feedback should stay on the fact you pay, you get feedback. How long would it take to write a note of few wrds after watching a 3 minutes video? It would take no time at all, few seconds, lets say a minute, but it would offer respect for someone who paid you to watch it. Our point is, the feedback should be provided without having to chase for it, and it would act as some form of evidence they watched you film.

For what is worth, the fact even an anonymous (or two or three etc) person does claim they got feedback, will be mentioned in the film, but will me marked as just anonymous claim. it wont be left off though. Hope that makes it fair for everyone.

But again, please keep in mind, anything that bring something to light, is for the greater good. There many many stories that had happy individuals, and behind it was a terrible truth.
 
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Axilleys

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well, sorry some don't believe me here. I speak the truth. I guess it's your prerogative to not believe me. I don't have any affiliation with that organization. I don't have any affiliation with anyone really, lol. And if people are adamant that they asked for feedback and didn't get, I don't have any reason to not believe it. Sorry that happened to you, they sound frustrated. Actually, when I requested feedback I wasn't expecting any reply and figured it was just a shot in the dark, but was impressed they took the time to get back to me.
I have sent 3 emails to them for feedback and a forth to one of the people that appear to be part of the panel that make the evaluation. nobody has replied to me and I am happy to provide the evidence of those emails and messages to the producers. I am not calling you a liar, but I am not one either and I can prove my own claim. Nothing against you, I am just very upset with this silence from those people. If I had the reply you had, it would be fine I guess.
 

Scalms

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I have sent 3 emails to them for feedback and a forth to one of the people that appear to be part of the panel that make the evaluation. nobody has replied to me and I am happy to provide the evidence of those emails and messages to the producers. I am not calling you a liar, but I am not one either and I can prove my own claim. Nothing against you, I am just very upset with this silence from those people. If I had the reply you had, it would be fine I guess.
I did not say we do not believe you; I said your comment is without evidence. If you want, you can submit the evidence and it will be in support for BIFSC, but nobody said you have to. But until we see that evidence, your claim is hearsay, and we work on the basis of critical thinking and facts. You are aware of people saying this or that and have no evidence in this time of human history, right? Having said all that, we have no reason to not believe you as a person in any case, and saying "you could be affiliated" was to make a point an anonymous claim means nothing to an investigation and could be coming from anywhere. Don't take it personally please, this is not what this is about. On the contrary this is about protecting you and others from taking your hard earned money and just giving it to someone who all they did was to make a webpage.

Still, if you are happy what you paid form, this is you. People pay money for lot of things and have different opinion about it, as not everyone likes the same level of service. Someone here said they are happy they buy a 3 minutes footage for 30 euro, if that makes them happy, cool. The problem here is the illusion those web events create and the zero work they do. If you were to get 300k euro, to only make a list of 10 people nobody can get in touch with and then just give feedback here and there so few people say they got something, I afraid this is a scam, and while we want to investigate this practise with BIFSC (because that is what started it when we were approached), it is part of a wider issue with online competitions that needs a crack down of some sort.

The point on feedback should stay on the fact you pay, you get feedback. How long would it take to write a note of few wrds after watching a 3 minutes video? It would take no time at all, few seconds, lets say a minute, but it would offer respect for someone who paid you to watch it. Our point is, the feedback should be provided without having to chase for it, and it would act as some form of evidence they watched you film.

For what is worth, the fact even an anonymous (or two or three etc) person does claim they got feedback, will be mentioned in the film, but will me marked as just anonymous claim. it wont be left off though. Hope that makes it fair for everyone.

But again, please keep in mind, anything that bring something to light, is for the greater good. There many many stories that had happy individuals, and behind it was a terrible truth.
no worries. I had to dig up the comment they sent since it was a couple years ago. I'm not supporting BIFSC, I only offered my experience for what it's worth. But I am curious the result of your endeavor here, as I feel any kind of search for truth is warranted, whether they are legit or not. I often wonder during competitions whether my piece ever gets listened too. I've learned to have really low expectations. But I appreciate your pursuit to weed out any possible fraud.
 

Leandro Gardini

Senior Member
Even though I was the first winner of this competition back in 2018, making part of 2 of the three subsequent contests has been very frustrating to me.
I wasn't selected as a finalist for the following couple of scores that I consider the same standard as the winning one from 2018.
When they announced the 2022 competition a few days ago I asked them if past winners are considered for future competitions and here is their reply:

"Previous Finalists of the same competition (film Scoring) can take part again and be considered for receiving Awards and be named in the 10 finalists.
Previous Award Winners of the same competition (Film Scoring) will not be considered for receiving Awards and be named in the 10 finalists."


My bad for not having asked it before, but this information should be on their set of rules right from their second competition.
I also think it is strange for any competition to be secretive regarding judgment. However, sometimes, it's even weirder when they expose their feedback.
 
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DanniDo

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Even though I was the first winner of this competition back in 2018, making part of 2 of the three subsequent contests has been very frustrating to me.
I wasn't selected as a finalist for the following couple of scores that I consider the same standard as the winning one from 2018.
When they announced the 2022 competition a few days ago I asked them if past winners are considered for future competitions and here is their reply:

"Previous Finalists of the same competition (film Scoring) can take part again and be considered for receiving Awards and be named in the 10 finalists.
Previous Award Winners of the same competition (Film Scoring) will not be considered for receiving Awards and be named in the 10 finalists."


My bad for not having asked it before, but this information should be on their set of rules right from their second competition.
I also think it is strange for any competition to be secretive regarding judgment. However, sometimes, it's even weirder when they expose their feedback.
Hi Leo,
we have confirmed your experience is the same with five other winners (within the first 3) of both Scoring and Sound Design competitions of BIFSC. we have gathered evidence that the rules mentioned what you wrote here (which is their reply) but this is only in their Sound Design Rules. This is yet another example of the coffee table, let's make a quick euro.

Since my last message here, my production has got serious evidence in their hands about BIFSC, we have been in contact with other organisations that the name of BIFSC attempts to confuse participants that BIFSC is related to these organisations.

We are bringing up a portal for the production, where a timeline will be public, so people can get in touch and offer comments and experiences. If you wish to share your experience, including what benefits you got (real-life benefits not the pitty award they offer), we would be very happy to organise an interview with you. As previously stated, while this whole thing is looking like a scam, we need the side of BIFSC and we welcome positive comments as our goal is the truth.

Having said all that, at this point, this is just an anonymous group, people send their monies to, there is some kind of judges who will only say "yeah, I was contracted to make a review of some videos they sent me, but I know nothing past that blah blah".
They may be hiding. But the answers are coming.
 

rfrancian

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I'm sorry I wasn't aware of any of this before I applied. I do have a question though. After reading all this I went back and read the rules and am wondering what it means when the say I retain ownership of my work but have to assign my copyright to them? Any ideas?
 
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DanniDo

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I'm sorry I wasn't aware of any of this before I applied. I do have a question though. After reading all this I went back and read the rules and am wondering what it means when the say I retain ownership of my work but have to assign my copyright to them? Any ideas?
I am explaining here what our production has been explaned from a legal source who specialise on such copyright issues: It means you can use of course your score for whatever reason you want (not the video though, you can not use the video with your score for a reel, or make it available online etc). On the other hand, they can do anything they want with your score, meaning they can even sell it to someone and make money. This and many more is part of our ongoing investigation. Watch this space, big updates to follow in the upcoming months.
 

Axilleys

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Even though I was the first winner of this competition back in 2018, making part of 2 of the three subsequent contests has been very frustrating to me.
I wasn't selected as a finalist for the following couple of scores that I consider the same standard as the winning one from 2018.
When they announced the 2022 competition a few days ago I asked them if past winners are considered for future competitions and here is their reply:

"Previous Finalists of the same competition (film Scoring) can take part again and be considered for receiving Awards and be named in the 10 finalists.
Previous Award Winners of the same competition (Film Scoring) will not be considered for receiving Awards and be named in the 10 finalists."


My bad for not having asked it before, but this information should be on their set of rules right from their second competition.
I also think it is strange for any competition to be secretive regarding judgment. However, sometimes, it's even weirder when they expose their feedback.
"weirder when they expose their feedback" what that means? Feedback suppose to be the most important part of any competition, to make transparent why you won (or didnt), instead of being favoured.

It adds value and putting few words together costs (timewise) nothing when you have watched a 3 to 5 minutes video (e,g, "not synchornized", "not ideal coupling of instruments on the higher register", e.t.c.), its part of fair play.

Did you at least get feedback when you won? And I have seen your YouTube stuff, and read that they were ignoring you for a long time when you were trying to get in touch with them of why you were never in the finallists again. Up to recently you were excanging messages on your channel being in total dark why you were paying them and never even getting in the finallists since you last win, stating yourself the ruiles for Scoring were not stating anything about past winners. This was only stated for sound design and still does. Because they are a mess, and just take money from people.

I think that anotherweird thing is that, ignoring your past winner for a simple question, that conviniently brings you money from him every year.
 
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Leandro Gardini

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"weirder when they expose their feedback" what that means? Feedback suppose to be the most important part of any competition, to make transparent why you won (or didnt), instead of being favoured.

It adds value and putting few words together costs (timewise) nothing when you have watched a 3 to 5 minutes video (e,g, "not synchornized", "not ideal coupling of instruments on the higher register", e.t.c.), its part of fair play.

Did you at least get feedback when you won? And I have seen your YouTube stuff, and read that they were ignoring you for a long time when you were trying to get in touch with them of why you were never in the finallists again. Up to recently you were excanging messages on your channel being in total dark why you were paying them and never even getting in the finallists since you last win, stating yourself the ruiles for Scoring were not stating anything about past winners. This was only stated for sound design and still does. Because they are a mess, and just take money from people.

I think that anotherweird thing is that, ignoring your past winner for a simple question, that conviniently brings you money from him every year.
In my experience, I've got much better feedback from laymen than from competition judges. Spitfire's justification of why they chose the winner of Westworld is one classic example of what I mean. You may disagree with me though. But I am just elaborating my point.
Truth be told, I've never been ignored by BIFSC. They have replied to all my messages as far as I can remember. However, they never stated that past winners won't be considered for future contests until a few days ago in my email.
If I knew I wouldn't be considered I would probably have passed the other competitions because I'm not very keen on judges' feedback.
 

Axilleys

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In my experience, I've got much better feedback from laymen than from competition judges. Spitfire's justification of why they chose the winner of Westworld is one classic example of what I mean. You may disagree with me though. But I am just elaborating my point.
Truth be told, I've never been ignored by BIFSC. They have replied to all my messages as far as I can remember. However, they never stated that past winners won't be considered for future contests until a few days ago in my email.
If I knew I wouldn't be considered I would probably have passed the other competitions because I'm not very keen on judges' feedback.
If they were replying to you, what were they saying and forgot to tell you "dont pay for entry, we wont consider you". But you have said it yourself, in your post "I'm out - Berlin International Film Scoring Competition 2020" : "But it can be very frustrating when you are not even among the 10 finalists and when the winners come out you start to wonder what were their criteria for judging." and further below where other people were complaining : "No comments nor feedback came from them so far."

There are no creteria Leo. HTey are a well staged money trap.

And what they feedback or winning their competition did for you? You did not answer that. Nothing. You are good as you were, you didnt gain anything from them.

To close this matter, as I did my part giving my interview about them, and hope to see some justice, you Leo, your music, is just beautiful. All the best.
 
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DanniDo

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Update: For those who asked about the .org name please read this article, that explains that the .org domain can be used from people that only seek profit and it is "not related exclusively" to non-profit, charity or other noble cause. BIFSC seems so far to be a money-making page (which is not illegal) with a bad design and no real people, but we are here to confirm the truth one way or the other. We have no feeling one way or the other, we are here to find the truth (if people pay money for the wrong reason, those running the page people give zero hours into it, and participants get nothing in return).

This is the link about .org: https://charitycheck101.org/a-dot-org-website-doesnt-mean-its-a-charity/

Further to this matter, we have sent emails and are in contact with several Tax Offices including Greece (particular interest to the people appearing from this country in the panel, as Greece has a very strong Tax invasion system).

We also want to thank all the people who are investing time to trace and confirm leads to support the production investigation, as well as for their help to locate the government bodies to reach out about this matter for the involved countries and their contact details.
 
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DanniDo

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In my experience, I've got much better feedback from laymen than from competition judges. Spitfire's justification of why they chose the winner of Westworld is one classic example of what I mean. You may disagree with me though. But I am just elaborating my point.
Truth be told, I've never been ignored by BIFSC. They have replied to all my messages as far as I can remember. However, they never stated that past winners won't be considered for future contests until a few days ago in my email.
If I knew I wouldn't be considered I would probably have passed the other competitions because I'm not very keen on judges' feedback.
If you had been in contact with them about not being selected, what were they wirting to you if they didn't tell you that you can not participate (and subsequently you kept trying and paying) if you were the winner before? Very confusing post, but we understand where you are coming from.

For someone of your status, with students and clients (re your posts), I wonder why you participated in this competition with practically zero gain for you? You seem to be out of place there, and your posts demonstrate someone well established.
 

Leandro Gardini

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If you had been in contact with them about not being selected, what were they wirting to you if they didn't tell you that you can not participate (and subsequently you kept trying and paying) if you were the winner before? Very confusing post, but we understand where you are coming from.

For someone of your status, with students and clients (re your posts), I wonder why you participated in this competition with practically zero gain for you? You seem to be out of place there, and your posts demonstrate someone well established.
I did receive feedback from them on my second trial. They told me that the reason for not putting me on the finals is that my music didn't connect with the character. That is why I wrote above that I don't care about weird judges' feedback.
It's worth mentioning again that only last week after asking them, they let me know about the impossibility of past winners being considered in the competition. I was treated very unfairly!
I don't know what makes you believe I am a well-established composer. I decided to participate in those competitions because I didn't have any paid work at that time, and it was a chance to develop my career further.
 
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DanniDo

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I did receive feedback from them on my second trial. They told me that the reason for not putting me on the finals is that my music didn't connect with the character.
That is more confusing, so it was this reason, or becuase you were a previous winner? That doesnt make sense (not you saying it, them messing you about).

What seems it has happened to you (as with 2 other past winners), is that they just send you a random reply "didnt connect with the character". They copy paste replies, we have confirmed that by examing the text/font.

That is why I wrote above that I don't care about weird judges' feedback.
It's worth mentioning again that only last week after asking them, they let me know about the impossibility of past winners being considered in the competition. I was treated very unfairly!
So they told you one thing before (it didnt connect with the character) and two weeks ago they told you about the impossibility of past winners. That contradiction speaks volumes.

I think everyone now starts to see what is happening here. And keep in mind, we have other people stating the same problem, in one case being even more weird than your case.

But yes, you were really treated unfairly because it seems you have submited 2 or 3 times before you found out it was in vain.

I don't know what makes you believe I am a well-established composer. I decided to participate in those competitions because I didn't have any paid work at that time, and it was a chance to develop my career further.
Leo, we didnt use the word established in this message (but you are very well established anyway), but having students and making tutorials, plus a honestly good work submited to them, and anything the production has listend from your work, you are not an amature, not an intermediate composer, but rather on a pro level.

And to make this more clear, this is your message from the post "Composing for live performance with minimal instantaneous feedback from VI's":

"Not at all. I've been "composing for musicians while working solely with samples" for many years before I first had a chance to listen to my orchestration with a real orchestra.
I've been criticized for having this approach but it paid off. I've never had to change a note while recording with orchestras."

So, based on your own words (and we have no doubt about it) you are an established composer. And having worked with composers, I know you did not get from your award to that level in 2 years, you had to have experience in the first place.

You didn't need them or the fake award, which you admit, did nothing to you, as you don't pay attention to such awards. They needed you.

All those money-grabing schemes, use some good composers to make the first award and then go on auto.

Evidence flow in rapidly, everyone stay tuned.
 
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