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Asian guy gets offended

Am I a snowflake?

  • Stop being so offended

    Votes: 31 58.5%
  • You're justified

    Votes: 22 41.5%

  • Total voters
    53

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
I typically love your posts, but this one sounds like you might be having a bad day. You can't add material between the lines and insist it's what the other person was intending to say. You can assume and you can ask, but if they say you're reading too far into what they wrote, then you're reading too far into what they wrote.
But I didn't "add" anything. Dude just claims I did.

Communication is a cultural process of coding and decoding. What people hear when you speak will be a product of your coding and their decoding processes, and both are defined by our individual experience. We're not computers, you can't send a set ot 0s and 1s to another machine. Interpretations, assumptions and questions are expected. The more our sets of codes are similar to each other, the more we are able to unmistakenly understand each other. That becomes less and less likely the more multi-layered topics get.

What I said was: it sounds as if you were saying XY. If we're now at the point where you're not allowed to listen to a statement and say: wait, I think you're saying this and that - then who is actually the "offended" party here? A statement cannot be off limits once the person simply says "oh, that's not what I meant". That's the exact thing that populists and dirty lawyers do - put something out there and once it's questioned simply play the "silly me" card.

I could be wrong with an assumption. Happens all the time. But to expect people to not have assumptions, even if you're possibly blathering at least debatable bits - isn't that kind of convenient? Especially when you backtrack without refuting the assumption in any way -and your own statement included a fair share of assumptions as well. I mean remember, he was the dude who wanted to debate it out.

I don't know, these people who keep calling everyone around them thin-skinned sure seem to be thin-skinned. /shrug
 
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dzilizzi

Senior Member
I do think a lot of the jokey names they were coming up with made no sense, other than the anime related ones. And really only because most who are interested in the library became that way because the love music from anime movies and TSS will allow them to get that sound better than any other string library out there. But I do think you got a little too much into the telling everyone off when you found it offensive to you. No one was trying to be offensive, and I get that is not an excuse, but it is better to teach than get angry. You just complained about how everything offends you. One of my best friends is Chinese (as in from China), she finds stereotypes about Chinese funny for the most part and makes jokes about it. But she also shares things about her culture with me. If you can't have a sense of humor about it while sharing what is actually real about the culture, you will find it hard to keep friends who don't share your culture.

Plus it is really tiring and stressful to be offended all the time. I guess maybe because I'm old now, but it takes a lot to really offend me. It's not worth it. Though I do try not to be too offensive to others.
 

timprebble

Sound designer, Composer, Sound library developer
re the poll, I don't think its for others to tell you how to feel, or to validate your feelings. My only advice is to learn to use the IGNORE function. There is no obligation to be exposed to someone if their behaviour or language offends you. (For example I loathe sports and the idea of being in a sports bar or at a game to me is repulsive. But guess what? I have zero exposure to sports fans - they can do what they like, and so can I.)

ps it is also worth saying, no Westerner/gaijin is ever going to have much other than a very superficial knowledge of Japanese culture. For a really brutal example, if I mention Japan in coversation more than a few people have told me how they fell in love with Japan via a film by Sofia Coppolla called Lost in Translation. I didn't like the film much (despite Bill Murray usually being reliably great) A few times when I've been in Japan and discussing film I have asked locals what they think of that particular film, and have always been met with a shrug of the shoulders. Then I read this review by a Japanese writer and I understood... Sofia Coppolla is a clever director, an intelligent and well informed & travelled person and yet still, it seems she was oblivious to how offensive many aspects of her film are. If she can make such huge mistakes, some leeway should be made for people who may know nothing about Japan other than eating sushi and watching anime.
 

bill5

Senior Member
To me, stereotypes aren't bad per se. Many stereotypes in specific contexts I wouldn't approve of, sure. What we call stereotypes are part of how humans always have and always will try to get by in the world by noticing what kinds of people, things, actions seem to occur together more often than chance would suggest. There are positive as well as negative stereotypes and any stereotype may contain no, a little or considerable truth. Stand-up comedians of both sexes often provoke considerable laughter of recognition from both sexes by pointing out 'stereotypes' about the behaviour of each sex.
Comedians have also historically gotten and even now still get a ton of mileage out of other stereotypes too...racial, ethnic, age related, etc etc. And they are funny and resonate because most stereotypes have their basis in truth (and even more so now because there are so many hypersensitive people who freak out about it). That doesn't mean they're always true, or are true at all any more, if they ever were. I think it just reminds us of our flaws as human beings, either in the stereotype itself or in the perceptions of it. We are a very silly species :)
 

LamaRose

Gato Mighty!
Get an ancestral DNA test and you'll probably be suffering with "offendedness" the rest of your days.

I'm of German, Irish, Native American heritage and probably others with said testing. And to be brutally honest, I wouldn't give a rat's ass if someone "called" me a Nazi-redskin-lucky charm on this or any other forum... simple reason why:

Compared with all of the loss, pain, angst, challenges that life has caused me, and that I have caused others, personal insults - intentional or not - are but feathered barbs thrown by equally lightweight contenders in this arena we call life. I actually pity those who easily insult or are easily insulted because life will swallow them hard and whole.
 

Crowe

Avian Member
But I didn't "add" anything. Dude just claims I did.

Communication is a cultural process of coding and decoding. What people hear when you speak will be a product of your coding and their decoding processes, and both are defined by our individual experience. We're not computers, you can't send a set ot 0s and 1s to another machine. Interpretations, assumptions and questions are expected. The more our sets of codes are similar to each other, the more we are able to unmistakenly understand each other. That becomes less and less likely the more multi-layered topics get.

What I said was: it sounds as if you were saying XY. If we're now at the point where you're not allowed to listen to a statement and say: wait, I think you're saying this and that - then who is actually the "offended" party here? A statement cannot be off limits once the person simply says "oh, that's not what I meant". That's the exact thing that populists and dirty lawyers do - put something out there and once it's questioned simply play the "silly me" card.

I could be wrong with an assumption. Happens all the time. But to expect people to not have assumptions, even if you're possibly blathering at least debatable bits - isn't that kind of convenient? Especially when you backtrack without refuting the assumption in any way -and your own statement included a fair share of assumptions as well. I mean remember, he was the dude who wanted to debate it out.

I don't know, these people who keep calling everyone around them thin-skinned sure seem to be thin-skinned. /shrug

Nah man. I just explained my position and you made it into something it wasn't. You added a lot of things and have now turned *both* of my post into what you want them to be, while acting all interesting and throwing around pretty subjective 'observations' just so you can be right. You're just an asshat like the rest of us.

Have fun ripping this one out of context too.
 

Denix

New Member
Denying the legitimacy of someones feelings is just not okay. Not in the "real world" or an "echo-chamber". It is about feeling offended and clarifying the intentions or accepting that you were wrong and you can learn something. If intended... Of cource, we can all become cynical or even better, we can be so proud of our thick skin that we offend someone and tell him afterwards, he should`t be a pussy, because we are not offended easily... Well... I`m pretty shure we could find something!
 

Polkasound

Senior Member
Communication is a cultural process of coding and decoding. What people hear when you speak will be a product of your coding and their decoding processes, and both are defined by our individual experience.
I think you stated that perfectly, however, tact and civility should still guide what you say and how you say it after you're done decoding. If you think someone is intending to mean more than what they're saying, especially if it's something negative, consider kindly asking for clarification before assuming or insisting your assumption is right. "I want to make sure I understand your point of view. Are you saying..." goes a long way toward keeping a conversation amicable.


A statement cannot be off limits once the person simply says "oh, that's not what I meant".
Yes, but you have to argue what the person said, not what you think they wanted to say. And if they tell you your assumption is incorrect, then it's incorrect. I've been in a few debates in the past where I've simply replied with "No, that's not what I said. Please re-read my post."


But I didn't "add" anything. Dude just claims I did.
Crowe brought up Japanese exports and posed questions to get a better understanding of moon's point of view. Then you came in from left field with:

"You act as if the banality of capitalistic export commodities is Japan, and as if japanese people as individuals chose that to be their collective identity and are now acting pissy if they get reduced to that. You surely know that's totally missing the mark."

Crowe corrected you by telling you that you were reading too far into his post, but then you went on to imply that you weren't:

Once you close in on the notions and give them some thought, inevitably it's "you're reading things into what I said :crying:". Am I?
even if you didn't mean to say it (which doesn't mean you're not thinking it).
People [are] rarely conscious about their thoughts and ideas.

And then everyone on VI-Control be like:

Winona-Ryder.png



I guess maybe because I'm old now, but it takes a lot to really offend me.
I'm the same way. If someone verbally ripped me to shreds, blasphemed my God, cursed my cats, trashed my music, and called me every Polish and German epithet under the sun, my response would be, "Darn it, if only Savage made that interception, the Packers would be tied for first place in the NFC!"


I actually pity those who easily insult or are easily insulted because life will swallow them hard and whole.
Being offended, with or without cause, is all the rage.
When someone expresses how offended they are by a word, symbol, or stereotype, my first reaction is to wish they would decide not to let it offend them anymore. They are the ones who are giving power to it. But I must also concede I didn't grow up a Jew in Nazi Germany, or a Black slave in the 1800s, or a displaced Native American, nor have I ever lived as a minority, a disabled person, or a woman. The only life I've experienced is that of a middle class Christian Caucasian male from the suburbs. Regardless, I still believe today's extreme political correctness, cancel culture, and fad-like hypersensitivity are weakening our country. We wouldn't need all those band-aids if people weren't so easy to wound.
 
OP
moon

moon

Active Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #50
Thanks again all for your comments. It's good to know we can have (mostly) civil conversation about things like this! There are a few things I want to address.

Firstly, I do want to apologize to the fine folks over at ISW for clogging up their thread initially. They don't deserve that. They are all wonderful, respectful people who are turning out great products. I also want to apologize to @gedlig for how I approached this topic. It wasn't right for me to use your comments as an example without having discussion with you about it first. That was disrespectful and wrong of me to do and I'm truly sorry.

Secondly, I would like to change the vocabulary I used. I think "offended" was perhaps not the best word for me to use. (And judging by some of the comments here, it also appears to be pretty offensive to some!) Perhaps "annoyed as hell" and "tired of hearing this" are more appropriate.

Thirdly and most importantly, I think a lot of those here are not going to see things from my perspective, and that's okay. As an ethnic minority in the USA, my experiences and my life are going to be different from most other people's, just as your lives are probably different from most others'. Through my life, I've heard countless little remarks that utilized stereotypes that have just added up through the years. That is the real world for me. I know 99.99999999% of them are said by people who mean no ill will, it's just frustrating and I'm tired of having to listen to it. Whether or not I've accomplished my goal of getting people to think about how their words affect others, I don't know, but at least I spoke up and said my piece!

P.S. Some people here really need to work on their reading comprehension!
 

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
What I take from this that you're mostly addressing the issue of tone and tact. That's fair, but in the end it's just a question of flavor. My answer to that is: we need to admit that we're all soapboxing here. It's a bunch of armchair quarterbacking and mental gymnastics. I don't condemn that, I'm obviously a seasoned player in this sport, haha.

I felt that the thread was developing somewhat of a one-sided drift and that it would be fun stirring that up a bit. Everyone seems to agree nowadays that offended people are the worst. It's such a low hanging fruit. Why not introduce a little bit of headwind? Destabilizing people in their confidence a bit is fun, because it's a form of intellectually challenging their stance. I don't mean it as a social crusade. It's fair game, it's not like anyone was doing anything different. I think it worked formidably.

I know some people don't enjoy it when you do that to them. You wanna put something out there and all of a sudden you're on the back foot. But I mean, you're a big boy, you're telling people that they're too sensitive and offended™, surely you can take a little tackle yourself? Talk about being caught with one's pants down. People are gonna cry about Jimmy Hellfire because he sounds so snooty while he hits you where you're weak. That's so very disruptive. But we know I'm not really the one who's out of line here.

I absolutely do get your perspective that objections like mine could be placed in a less provoking and more diplomatic manner. But it comes at the cost of honesty and it shows when someone is not prepared for scrutiny on a subject matter level. I still think that the defense was weak. And then in turns into whining quickly, with the very expetcable "you're twisting my words" complaint and the ad hominems ("you're hysterical", "you don't have any friends"). Or remarks of the type "offended people should be used as meat shields". :grin: Why is it again that I'm justifying myself for my presumed lack of tact?

Hey, I don't mean any harm. It's all good fun, is it not.
 

Henu

Senior Member
Or orcs and humans! But I guess you did get the idea that I was rather talking about the non-zealot types of ordinary (western) society representatives.
 

DCPImages

Member
Or orcs and humans! But I guess you did get the idea that I was rather talking about the non-zealot types of ordinary (western) society representativ
Point is that identity groups are nothing new or nowadays more harmful. Sadly, humans have always divided along identity lines. That is why we have wars.
 

AudioLoco

Senior Member
To the OP:
I don't know exactly what has been said to you, but:
You shouldn't feel guilty about feeling bad when people talk BS and use idiotic, racist and xenophobic language. Even when "joking".
They are not "offending" you as an individual. That is too reductive of what is going on.
They are offending human intelligence and contribuiting to stereotypes that, over the years, if recognized by a whole community as acceptable as innocent banter, will bring to more, less jolly consequences.
You will find that most of the times these "innocent hahah talk" people are the ones who will resort to actions which will range from simple exclusion and public shaming of individuals and communities to actual acts of violence.

The only thing that an individual can do when another individual is telling them they are crossing a line is to apologize, learn from the mistake and stop saying and writing certain things.
If they tell you you are a snowflake it means they just want to keep having the privilege of preserving their dominance and ignorant cultural violence over you.

Especially as these times are so ugly and racists are actually gaining power everywhere in the world it is a even more important to eradicate a certain type of hateful language.

You are not a snowflake.
 

gedlig

Member
Thanks again all for your comments. It's good to know we can have (mostly) civil conversation about things like this! There are a few things I want to address.

Firstly, I do want to apologize to the fine folks over at ISW for clogging up their thread initially. They don't deserve that. They are all wonderful, respectful people who are turning out great products. I also want to apologize to @gedlig for how I approached this topic. It wasn't right for me to use your comments as an example without having discussion with you about it first. That was disrespectful and wrong of me to do and I'm truly sorry.

Secondly, I would like to change the vocabulary I used. I think "offended" was perhaps not the best word for me to use. (And judging by some of the comments here, it also appears to be pretty offensive to some!) Perhaps "annoyed as hell" and "tired of hearing this" are more appropriate.

Thirdly and most importantly, I think a lot of those here are not going to see things from my perspective, and that's okay. As an ethnic minority in the USA, my experiences and my life are going to be different from most other people's, just as your lives are probably different from most others'. Through my life, I've heard countless little remarks that utilized stereotypes that have just added up through the years. That is the real world for me. I know 99.99999999% of them are said by people who mean no ill will, it's just frustrating and I'm tired of having to listen to it. Whether or not I've accomplished my goal of getting people to think about how their words affect others, I don't know, but at least I spoke up and said my piece!

P.S. Some people here really need to work on their reading comprehension!
No need to apologise. Use my nonsenses as an example of what you don't like :D It was neither disrespectful, nor wrong. You have your annoyances, so just express them, nothing to worry about. I'm not here to make you think differently (I only saw this thread by accident when looking at latest posts, wouldn't even care otherwise), just to add some mental context to my posts. Do with that whatever you want :thumbsup: Free thinking and all that

(Also I really want to take a wild guess that you're probably from California, cause that place seems to me like some detached bubble that has no idea how the rest of the world sees things :D)
 

Trash Panda

Clueless nitwit
@moon I apologize for any of my contributions to that thread which caused offense or feelings of marginalization. There was no malicious intent involved on my part, but I still recognize and own the consequences of my words because that's what civilized adults do should do.

We can't control how we feel, so it's impossible to "not be so offended/sensitive". All we can control is how we channel those emotions. There is a pretty huge convergence of a Venn diagram of the folks who say "Stop being so sensitive, snowflake" and the folks who get up in arms when the topic at hand offends them. Everyone is sensitive about something.

Many of those who dismiss ethnic marginalization can also be found supporting/partaking in efforts to ban devil rock/metal, violent video games and books that highlight the less pleasant parts of America's history because that offends them.

A lot of people really need to do some self-reflection and take off the blinders they've put in place to their own hypocrisy.
 
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