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Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra

Spitfire folks -- Homay's demo is absolutely mind bogglingly exquisite. Probably the most beautiful thing ever written to demo a library. I always look forward to her more poetic take on your products, but this was something else.

It would be great to have a walkthrough of this! -- it uses the library in a way that's much more in tune with how some of like to use these tools than the typical Spitfire walkthroughs.
 
Re: dynamic layers. Orchestral Tools berlin oboe in the expansion pack, is only ONE single dynamic layer (mf), but that patch regulary wins votes for the most expressive oboe out there.
I believe you misunderstood the praise it gets, since only having a very good solo mf legato does not mean the patch is not limited in any serious way. You’re making it sound like one layer is adequate. So when you conclude this:

So it's not that the most dynamic layers possible = more realism.
You start from a false assumption, no one is arguing for “most dynamic layers possible”. One does need a certain amount of real recorded dynamics to get a decent form of realism in there. If you believe a single layer with a filter is an adequate substitute then you’ve lost me, sorry.
 
My new acid test is repeated notes in legato. If you play the same note twice, does it go "nnah-dah" or "nnah-nnyaah"? Seems obvious but almost every library I own has this problem. (I guess few companies record "0 semitone" transitions?)
Jaeger, Synchron and CSS/CSB do this, not sure about Cinesamples.
 
Spitfire folks -- Homay's demo is absolutely mind bogglingly exquisite. Probably the most beautiful thing ever written to demo a library. I always look forward to her more poetic take on your products, but this was something else.

It would be great to have a walkthrough of this! -- it uses the library in a way that's much more in tune with how some of like to use these tools than the typical Spitfire walkthroughs.
+1
 
Very much looking forward to sharing session files for the first time... I'm going to try a hybrid piece with it where everything is BBCSO, even the synthy, bass stuff and by keeping it all native to logic anyone with BBCSO and Logic should be able to load it... We're setting something up as a go-to for all this additional material, more news next week... Right I'm off to tidy my trailer music so when I share it you don't see all my horrid little errors.

This is great, being able to load the session and learn from other experienced composer is a major selling point for me.
 
I confess I have absolutely no idea what the obsession is with the number of dynamic layers. 'Sufficient' is the answer. An increased number bears no relationship to increased realism. The smoothness and phase coherence of the crossfade, and the quality of your writing and orchestration are the paths to enlightenment.

Some people seem to enjoy searching for cudgels to attack or concoct conspiracy theories.
 
If you believe a single layer with a filter is an adequate substitute then you’ve lost me, sorry.
I didn´t actually say at any point that a single layer with a filter is an adequate substitute for dynamic layers, I only made the point that there are products out there that don´t have multiple dynamic layers and they work very well.
 
I believe that a VST library should have a minimum of 3 dynamic layers for instruments where this is applicable, but 5 would be preferred. Same goes for Round Robins.
 
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An increased number bears no relationship to increased realism.

This is an overstatement also. It's a relationship very much dependent on the instrument and very many other things besides. But its still an important relationship.

I've bough string libraries only realize that they lack a decent soft layer, and that therefore the instrument just doesn't hold up for any soft exposed passages.


Worse, the fake dynamics then give it this uncanniness that your average listener wouldn't necessarily understand as unrealistic, but the uncanniness has this, kind of ... unpleasant ... quality.


And at least arguably worse still, I've bought instrument that sounded in the demos like they had decent dynamics, but that turn out to have simulated dynamics on 1 or two dynamic layers. And so again when I try to write something in a style that doesn't minimize the dyanmics as in the demos, its not that its obviously 'unrealistic', but that this is the fake dynamics can really give this quality that I find particularly unpleasant in its uncanniness - precisely because its not always immediately obvious that its the 'fake' dyanmics giving rise to this uncanny quality. Its like an itch that you can't quite locate in order to scratch it.


Of course, there are lots of contexts in which the number of dynamic layer don't matter. I mean you can always just add lots of fff trombones, in which case the dynamic nuances of the p -> mp of your lyrical oboe isn't going to matter so much. But I find I tend to like to (try to) write in a way to leans on dynamics perhaps a bit more that your average demo.

Similarly, the OT exp B winds do sound truly wonderful - so long as you play within the constrains of the single dynamic layer. But this is a constraint that I think would really bother me at times given how I like to write - not that I wouldn't also love to have them for the times I would be ok with staying within those dynamic constrains.

So in this context, I'm sure you'll agree that 'how many dynamic layers?' it at least a fair question, no?
 
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I confess I have absolutely no idea what the obsession is with the number of dynamic layers. 'Sufficient' is the answer. An increased number bears no relationship to increased realism. The smoothness and phase coherence of the crossfade, and the quality of your writing and orchestration are the paths to enlightenment.

Some people seem to enjoy searching for cudgels to attack or concoct conspiracy theories.

Respectfully this is just not the case. One of the reasons ( among many ) that Mr Zimmer's Personal Sample Library is something from Olympus is the number of dynamics. 10 + among the Brass and strings....and the cross fades are seamless...........unbelievable .

Best

ed
 
yes, yes, I know none of it's real, but it could all be better, why settle for less?

I agree completely, but as I don't have the cash to send to Spitfire or any developer, with the condition that it be used to record dozens of extra dynamic layers that are blended seamlessly together, I will indeed have to settle for less.

I hesitate to call it settling, though. What we are able to do with virtual instruments is astonishing to me, and though I was initially very skeptical about all this, coming from a more or less classical background, I've long since accepted that this is a different world that operates by different principles.

I will always write with real players and instruments in mind, but I know that my route to a satisfying virtual performance is going to have to detour around certain "realisms." As long as the final result sounds musical and satisfying, I'm not too bothered.

As for why developers might be evasive about this information... well... I doubt the answer is ever as extravagant as some would hope. Better to let ears decide whether ppp and fff are proper or not, than list dynamic layers and by default alienate those who are going to judge based on that.
 
How much RAM does it take to have every single patch loaded and using multiple Mic Positions? I don't know because I haven't tried it yet... because it's not released yet. Perhaps you know something I don't regarding RAM usage?
Sorry, I'm only going by Christen's YouTube video. It doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for a normal studio computer. Maybe for a laptop with 16 GB RAM. But I would think multiple mic positions wouldn't be a problem for a 32 to 64 GB RAM computer. Maybe I'm assuming too much?
 
Sorry, I'm only going by Christen's YouTube video. It doesn't sound like it is going to be a problem for a normal studio computer. Maybe for a laptop with 16 GB RAM. But I would think multiple mic positions wouldn't be a problem for a 32 to 64 GB RAM computer. Maybe I'm assuming too much?

Guess its best to be safe and get a computer for each articulation.
 
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Respectfully this is just not the case. One of the reasons ( among many ) that Mr Zimmer's Personal Sample Library is something from Olympus is the number of dynamics. 10 + among the Brass and strings....and the cross fades are seamless...........unbelievable .

I'm sure it sounds amazing because... Hans, and if anybody is going to have the largest, most expensive sample library on the planet then it will be Mr Z, but that's not actually a 'proof' that it is superior because of having 10 layers as opposed to say, 5.

Totally impractical for a commercial orchestra product of course.
 
As for why developers might be evasive about this information... well... I doubt the answer is ever as extravagant as some would hope. Better to let ears decide whether ppp and fff are proper or not, than list dynamic layers and by default alienate those who are going to judge based on that.

Exactly so.
 
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